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Police certainly are far more aggressive than I recall. More likely to use physical force or arrest or shoot. I do find it disturbing in the aggregate. It is difficult work when confronted with someone with a propensity for violence but equally I think they should be careful when applying force on a person.
Again I recall in training to look for body language indicating the other person may resist with force. A ground grapple is deadly serious especially when having a sidearm which can be removed by the other person. The other fellow "squaring himself" in an aggressive posture is a tell tale sign to look for. I think everyone who has undergone training in the past 25 years knows about the video of a Texas sheriff who failed to note a basic traffic stop was about turn fatal for him- he did not notice the other fellow setting up his body language for a fight.
I can see why they did what they did. I refer to the Moore,OK officers in the OP attempting to cuff the person.
Appreciate the civil response. I'm guessing your an officer? If so, you've started off on the right foot to me.
I'm simply being objective and trying to follow the law to access the situation.
There's obviously cases where the victim is lying, witnesses are lying, etc., but what concerns me is everyone's willingness to believe the Police over anyone else. Especially when they have a motive to lie. That's why I was questioning some of the other posters so thoroughly about the story. The news accounts (from a credible source) completely contradict the narrative that some posters on here are pushing. I'm not going to blindly believe the victim's family because they have motive too, but I believe somewhere in the gray area is the truth.
I understand what your saying about the fighting stance, but is that means for arrest? I'm unsure about the law on that issue. Also, don't we as citizens have a right to protect ourselves and our rights? If the officer initiated the contact, is that the proper procedure?
From my understanding, the officer would have to feel there was a threat to his safety to justify cuffing the man to detain him. I believe that becomes a key issue in this case.
Honestly, I think we're ALL just now really getting down to it and examining our legal system. I can't really think of another time when its been scrutinized as much as it is right now. It's not just a Police issue imo.
A police report shows that officers were investigating a domestic abuse call outside the Warren Theater. The report shows an officer approached Rodriguez and asked for his identification but "he wasn't giving it to him" then "Luis stepped back, crossed his arms and tried to walk around" the officer.
Police reported that Rodriguez was "taking an aggressive stance" that they "interpreted as a fighting stance." Other officers eventually "stepped in to get Luis under control.".
Surprise, surprise, surprise. Once again the cops investigate themselves, and determine that they did nothing wrong. Who would ever think. Now it will go to a civil trial, and they will lose and the taxpayers will have to pay out a million dollars for a wrongful death. The system repeats over and over again.
Appreciate the civil response. I'm guessing your an officer? If so, you've started off on the right foot to me.
I'm simply being objective and trying to follow the law to access the situation.
There's obviously cases where the victim is lying, witnesses are lying, etc., but what concerns me is everyone's willingness to believe the Police over anyone else. Especially when they have a motive to lie. That's why I was questioning some of the other posters so thoroughly about the story. The news accounts (from a credible source) completely contradict the narrative that some posters on here are pushing. I'm not going to blindly believe the victim's family because they have motive too, but I believe somewhere in the gray area is the truth.
I understand what your saying about the fighting stance, but is that means for arrest? I'm unsure about the law on that issue. Also, don't we as citizens have a right to protect ourselves and our rights? If the officer initiated the contact, is that the proper procedure?
From my understanding, the officer would have to feel there was a threat to his safety to justify cuffing the man to detain him. I believe that becomes a key issue in this case.
Honestly, I think we're ALL just now really getting down to it and examining our legal system. I can't really think of another time when its been scrutinized as much as it is right now. It's not just a Police issue imo.
No. Military Police in my 20s.(Hence the 25 years past reference.) My brother is a Federal LEO. He admits, but not publicly, the shift in uniform policing and standards. My BIL is uniformed police-now senior ranking for a major metro region. I know about current issues from within from both. One is an instructor now and the other formerly an instructor of police trainees.
Surprise, surprise, surprise. Once again the cops investigate themselves, and determine that they did nothing wrong. Who would ever think. Now it will go to a civil trial, and they will lose and the taxpayers will have to pay out a million dollars for a wrongful death. The system repeats over and over again.
Wrong! It was investigated by OSBI (Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation) which is a separate independent state law enforcement agency. The agency isn't even part of local police at all. Like I said you love to spin things for your agenda. Yea she originally got a lawyer to file a civil suit and later fired her attorney claiming he and his staff wasn't honest about the case.
No. Military Police in my 20s.(Hence the 25 years past reference.) My brother is a Federal LEO. He admits, but not publicly, the shift in uniform policing and standards. My BIL is uniformed police-now senior ranking for a major metro region. I know about current issues from within from both. One is an instructor now and the other formerly an instructor of police trainees.
Very cool. Have respect for good cops. Have a ton of respect for the military. Appreciate your family's service.
I dated a cop, and never got details but got the drift that things aren't always kosher. I've also had 2 bad experiences. Which is what got me into this whole issue and fighting for citizen's rights and some type of accountability system.
Police are part of the problem, but the laws are equally to blame. I think its gonna be an ongoing process to correct our justice system. About the only thing we're 1st in anymore is amount of people in prison 25% of the world's population. That's just said seeing all the resources we have.
Surprise, surprise, surprise. Once again the cops investigate themselves, and determine that they did nothing wrong. Who would ever think. Now it will go to a civil trial, and they will lose and the taxpayers will have to pay out a million dollars for a wrongful death. The system repeats over and over again.
Yep.
People always bring up costs when Americans protests, but the amount that we spend annually to pay for their bad behavior would quickly make those people sit down and shut up.
Wrong! It was investigated by OSBI (Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation) which is a separate independent state law enforcement agency. The agency isn't even part of local police at all.
Oh please, it's one law enforcement agency investigating another (cops investigating cops), and the results are always the same every time. They find no wrong doing, then a civil jury finds they did do wrong and awards a lot of money. Why do they even bother to investigate? The results are always the same.
People always bring up costs when Americans protests, but the amount that we spend annually to pay for their bad behavior would quickly make those people sit down and shut up.
The people who complain about the costs of protests, are people who hate the Constitution, they hate freedom, and they want us to live in a fascist police state.
Oh please, it's one law enforcement agency investigating another (cops investigating cops), and the results are always the same every time. They find no wrong doing, then a civil jury finds they did do wrong and awards a lot of money. Why do they even bother to investigate? The results are always the same.
Who would do the investigating since apparently to you no law enforcement should do the investigating regardless of said agency being completely separate?
They are investigators and the commission members are appointed by the governor. Just because you dislike the income of said investigation, doesn't make it wrong. Zero witnesses back any claim that the man was beaten and kicked. You have always had an agenda of being nothing anti-cop. Not all civil suits are awarded money.
Very cool. Have respect for good cops. Have a ton of respect for the military. Appreciate your family's service.
I dated a cop, and never got details but got the drift that things aren't always kosher. I've also had 2 bad experiences. Which is what got me into this whole issue and fighting for citizen's rights and some type of accountability system.
Police are part of the problem, but the laws are equally to blame. I think its gonna be an ongoing process to correct our justice system. About the only thing we're 1st in anymore is amount of people in prison 25% of the world's population. That's just said seeing all the resources we have.
Right. Police and the laws. But not the criminals. Never the criminals.
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Who would ever think. Now it will go to a civil trial, and they will lose and the taxpayers will have to pay out a million dollars for a wrongful death. The system repeats over and over again.