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The idea that we all need to "just obey the law" is how totalitarian societies are born. If people are disobeying the law, maybe there are bad laws. Some laws, perhaps most, make sense. But laws aren't all good just because they're laws, and sometimes it's necessary to push back.
Blind, unquestioning obedience to authority neither leads to nor preserves human liberty. What if Harriet Tubman, Gandhi, Rosa Parks, MLK, and so many of the other people who changed the world for the better had "just obeyed the law"? If our Founding Fathers had "just obeyed the law," we'd still be British subjects. Think about it.
I think our problems have less to do with obedience, and much more to do with a loss of community and a loss of respect. What we're seeing is what happens when we cheapen the value of life and divide people into little groups based on meaningless physical characteristics. That's an oversimplification, but I think that's where we need to focus our energies. We need to rediscover our sense of community and empathy.
When you talk of the rule of law and the law of the land, what laws are you talking about? Are you talking about the laws supporting slavery, banning alcohol, or laws that are on the books even today in many municipalities and states that ban gay sex, shopping on Sunday's and I'm not joking, smiling or skipping in public?
People talk of the rule of law like laws are commandments from God. In fact laws are just the words of the people who wrote them. They are opinions. They mean something to the people who support them and voluntarily choose to enforce them whether it's cops, prosecutors, judges or member of a jury.
I find it completely illogical that people support the enforcement of laws that they don't agree with or support. They support the enforcement of other people's words even if they don't agree with those words. If you find a law abusive, immoral, inhumane, unconstitutional or just plain stupid, then you should not support the enforcement of those laws. If a law is abusive then those that enforce it are abusers. People say they hate government and hate some laws but they support the police. It's a contradiction. Every one has the option to just say no to enforcing a bad law. A cop can not ticket or arrest, a prosecutor can not prosecute, a judge can dismiss the case, a member of a jury can vote not guilty or a member of the public can not cooperate or not report it.
I think many laws today are abusive, invalid, unconstitutional and immoral so I dont say I support the rule of law. If the laws are bad I don't support them, nor the system or people which lead to them.
Just because people in a legislature, police station, DA's office or court say one thing I dont support it if I don't find it right or don't agree with it.
The idea that we all need to "just obey the law" is how totalitarian societies are born. If people are disobeying the law, maybe there are bad laws. Some laws, perhaps most, make sense. But laws aren't all good just because they're laws, and sometimes it's necessary to push back.
Blind, unquestioning obedience to authority neither leads to nor preserves human liberty. What if Harriet Tubman, Gandhi, Rosa Parks, MLK, and so many of the other people who changed the world for the better had "just obeyed the law"? If our Founding Fathers had "just obeyed the law," we'd still be British subjects. Think about it.
I think our problems have less to do with obedience, and much more to do with a loss of community and a loss of respect. What we're seeing is what happens when we cheapen the value of life and divide people into little groups based on meaningless physical characteristics. That's an oversimplification, but I think that's where we need to focus our energies. We need to rediscover our sense of community and empathy.
Not really. The idea is called the rule of law. once someone in power starts to ignore laws that is when other fell justified in breaking and setting their own rules in place. We have methods of changing laws thru representative voted into office. Then we have courts to protect our rights as to constitutionality.Without rule of law I society become more and more in conflict. You push back by having the law changed. Not by breaking it. I think most who lived before the mid 60's remember when conflict was not as much a part of society before whatever turns you o became common. Without law and the vast majority obeying them even if they do not agree then we will continue to have conflict increasing and no common ground that makes a community.
Not really. The idea is called the rule of law. once someone in power starts to ignore laws that is when other fell justified in breaking and setting their own rules in place. We have methods of changing laws thru representative voted into office. Then we have courts to protect our rights as to constitutionality.Without rule of law I society become more and more in conflict. You push back by having the law changed. Not by breaking it. I think most who lived before the mid 60's remember when conflict was not as much a part of society before whatever turns you o became common. Without law and the vast majority obeying them even if they do not agree then we will continue to have conflict increasing and no common ground that makes a community.
What you are saying is the public should bow down to the tyrants who make the bad laws and not blame the people who actually put those laws into practice: the people who enforce them. The system that is used to change bad laws is the same system that created the bad laws in the first place. It is not a system about protecting the rights and freedoms of the public. Just because a couple of politicians elected by some members of the public says this is the law and a couple of judges say something is constitutional doesn't make it right. If a law is abusive it is abusive and those enforcing it are abusers. Just because one group of people says something doesn't mean I will support their decisions or actions. I respect what is right regardless of what others say or think. Any system that produces bad laws is not a system which should be respected.
You must obey. You must obey. You must obey. You must obey. You must not have an opinion of your own. You must follow what others tell you. = tyranny of the majority and tyranny of the police state.
We've evolved. Times change. We have to live in the times we are in. I heard someone say recently, that humans will likely evolve to accommodate the way we use technology today. For instance, texting, and the position of the neck to look down at a phone will ultimately decide how we develop from an anthropological stand point. Modern problems should be dealt with in a modern fashion. I do understand, however, that the old way of doing things (some) might be just as beneficial.
you are right, we do evolve, and have, however, doesn't mean it's all right...we've lost morals, consideration for others, concern for the safety of others....I see us all buying into this feeling of entitlement....it's ok to drive and text or talk on the phone, when it certainly is not....
Evolution is and can be a good thing, but along the way, human beings have lost a respect for laws and even the knowledge of right from wrong....
2nd trick op;I understand the OP's concern, but to too many of the self-appointed moralists out there, the two sentences above will be read as an excuse to impose the folly known as "New Puritanism" or Political Correctness
And in no time at all, those would-be "czars" will be fighting among themselves over what they, the elite, will try to force on all of us --- and much of it in the name of "the community".
I do have a great concern, not for some New Puritanism, or Political correctness....I am 66 years old, and as conservative as they come....you can try to lable me by my concerns, but your couldn't be more wrong....
at my age, I have no strength, nor concern to fight with anyone
I say community, and communities, b/c a long time ago,in study, it was realized that we all are one big community....and our children of this nation, are our children...
Came up very hard...who didn't in those days...had to work for everything we wanted, and believe me, we didn't have much....food on the table and keeping the bills paid was first and foremost.
But it was different then, better....and I'm so fortunate to have come up in those times....in our neighborhood, all the parents knew each other, and kept in contact with each other, so everyone watched over us kids....and when we did something wrong, the parents scolded us, and it was perfectly fine with our parents to do so....kids didn't scream and hollor in doctor's offices, or restaurants, we were taught to whisper....we were taught to respect other people, to help them with their groceries, and if someone came up behind us with one or two items and we had a full grocery cart, we'd let them go first....we were taught to hold doors open for people coming out, and to move aside single file when walking down a hallway....we were kids with a great deal more of maturity and independence...with a sense of repsonsiblity, b/c we all had chores to accomplish, and we all got jobs at 13 years old....and everything wasn't given to us. Our parents didn't want to be our best friends, but realized the importance and repsonsibility behind parenting (not saying some don't have that now) simply describing what we had.
What concerns me is the loss of awareness....the inability to be aware that others have a right to their own personal space, even when out in public...others have a right to peace and quiet, especially when sick and in a doctors waiting room....let along respect for the property of others...
I started this thread, not to tell people what to do, as someone else has stated, but to open this issue up for discussion....and put our minds together and maybe something positive would venture out of it.
What you are saying is the public should bow down to the tyrants who make the bad laws and not blame the people who actually put those laws into practice: the people who enforce them. The system that is used to change bad laws is the same system that created the bad laws in the first place. It is not a system about protecting the rights and freedoms of the public. Just because a couple of politicians elected by some members of the public says this is the law and a couple of judges say something is constitutional doesn't make it right. If a law is abusive it is abusive and those enforcing it are abusers. Just because one group of people says something doesn't mean I will support their decisions or actions. I respect what is right regardless of what others say or think. Any system that produces bad laws is not a system which should be respected.
You must obey. You must obey. You must obey. You must obey. You must not have an opinion of your own. You must follow what others tell you. = tyranny of the majority and tyranny of the police state.
laws were written to protect people, however, today, laws have been so distorted and turned around that sometimes it seems that the criminal has more rights then law abiding citizens.
laws are needed to keep people in line, to keep our children safe....
I don't agree with the laws they are presently writing about smoking...however, it is now a law and I must abide by it...right or wrong in your mind...is no excuse to break the law...and it's not ok to break any law....
In some states, it is now against the law to talk on a cell phone while driving, and I'm all for it, b/c I've seen way to many people not be able to drive properly by doing so....when you dont' have laws, a lot of people end up getting hurt.
Your parents had rules of the house...which you were to follow to the letter, or should have....it was their law....if you went to visit a friend, eat over at their home and sleep over, you learned that their house rules might be a little more strict, or different...however, it was in fact their law...
It is against the law to smoke pot, however, some would say they have a right to do so, b/c they are not harming anyone....so they do it anyway, and if they get caught, they actually do not understand, why they are being arrested? Because it is against the law.
There are all kinds of reasons for traffic stops....maybe you've got a headlight out, maybe as, myself one time, forgot to get my car inspected....maybe my car looks just like a car that held up a band, a few blocks back....maybe I look like someone who was reported to have been breaking in a home....whatever reason, I have my drivers license, car insurance card and owners card all together and ready to hand to the officer if I am stopped, and if it is Night time, you can bet, I'm going to turn on the interrior light.....I was taught to follow rules...rules may not always seem fair, but they are there for a reason, and if I turn on my car lights, it shows the officer, I'm willing and I'm going to help him rather then fight him.
Why in God's name would you want to back mouth or get nasty with an officer...or anyone for that matter....you back mouth a teacher, a parent, a co-worker, or anyone, even your husband or wife, you back them into a corner, and they right away become defensive, you resist resolving something that started out innocently and now have blown it into something potentially dangerous. That is no way to be.
I see this nation turning around, with people who feel entitled to break the laws...and the turn around is a negative one...not safe at all. Every single day in Philly innocent people are getting shot...and robbed....raped and yet, those who do such things, think it's ok to do that, they don't even have the concept that they did anything wrong, and yet, when they did it, they ran, so what does that tell you?
It is not ok to break laws, it is not ok, to be nasty with your words to others....it is not ok, to rob and hit others, or beat them up....and it's not ok to hurt little kids....
"Let there be peace on earth
And let it begin with me."
thank you....yeah, its a great pipe dream.....I suppose....
Remember hearing my parents and their friends talking about the changes that had taken place, and were happening, and we kids used to role our eyes....and now, we're doing the same thing....lol
There have been a lot of good changes, as well.
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