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There certainly are women out there who can perform as firefighters, but there just aren't that many gals like Xena, Chyna or Brienne of Tarth out there, and most of them probably aren't interested in civil service work.
There certainly are women out there who can perform as firefighters, but there just aren't that many gals like Xena, Chyna or Brienne of Tarth out there, and most of them probably aren't interested in civil service work.
This really is the point. I'll fight intensely against unfair discrimination against women, and there certainly is some out there.
However, barring eons of evolutionary change, men will have a distinct physical advantage to similarly well conditioned women. Some women will be able to physiologically compete with men. They should never face discrimination due to their sex. If the standards are physically rigorous, most women will be unable to meet the same standards as men. Discriminating against these women (or against men who likewise fall short of those standards) is a perfectly legitimate means of screening applicants.
And, as you point out, the percentage of the general female population that is likely to pursue these jobs, is significantly lower than the percentage of men who seek this line of work.
The example you've provided may be a good reason to initiate a policy of annual retesting, but is unrelated to the importance of initially passing the required physical test.
Likewise, if a legitimate case can be made that the structure of the physical test does not accurately simulate the potential rigors faced by NYC firefighters, there may be cause for arguing in favor of a revised set of physical standards.
However, the fact that some firefighters who previously passed the test may have subsequently become unlikely to pass it now, is not a justification for allowing those who are known to be incapable of passing it to put the public at risk for no reason other than adherence to someone's sociopolitical agenda.
The fact that physical fitness is NOT tested on the job at all reinforces that the extent to which pure physical fitness matters is grossly overstated.
I totally support reasonable physical testing at the outset (for all candidates), and ongoing testing at that level throughout a career.
When the old white guys can't do it they should be put out to pasture. This will never happen though, I guess safety doesn't align with physical ability the way folks say it does.
The fact that physical fitness is NOT tested on the job at all reinforces that the extent to which pure physical fitness matters is grossly overstated.
I totally support reasonable physical testing at the outset (for all candidates), and ongoing testing at that level throughout a career.
When the old white guys can't do it they should be put out to pasture. This will never happen though, I guess safety doesn't align with physical ability the way folks say it does.
Do you KNOW they do not test firefighters after hire or are you ASSUMING? Your name seems to indicate you are in Vancouver, why are you so concerned with what we are doing in the states?
The fact that physical fitness is NOT tested on the job at all reinforces that the extent to which pure physical fitness matters is grossly overstated.
I totally support reasonable physical testing at the outset (for all candidates), and ongoing testing at that level throughout a career.
When the old white guys can't do it they should be put out to pasture. This will never happen though, I guess safety doesn't align with physical ability the way folks say it does.
And that's the rub with you isn't it? White people having the job. Old white male people.
And that's the rub with you isn't it? White people having the job. Old white male people.
Nope, the rub is anyone who can't physically do the job shouldn't be there. Let me guess though, you don't have problems with men not being able to physically meet the same standards after hire?
As for the poster about not commenting if I don't live in NY, hey, isn't that the cool thing about this newfangled internet thing? Guess comments are only for those from NY. Good to know
Nope, the rub is anyone who can't physically do the job shouldn't be there. Let me guess though, you don't have problems with men not being able to physically meet the same standards after hire?
As for the poster about not commenting if I don't live in NY, hey, isn't that the cool thing about this newfangled internet thing? Guess comments are only for those from NY. Good to know
The problem is that you are conflating the failure to hire someone who is known to be incapable of passing the physical test, with someone who was hired because they could pass the physical test--even though it is conceivable that the latter individual may have subsequently become incapable of passing the test again.
1--There should be a single, standardized physical test for anyone who wishes to become a firefighter.
2--That test should be structured in a manner which simulates the physical strength and endurance which may be needed in the performance of the job.
3--There should be periodic re-testing of all firefighters.
4--None of these tests should be designed or administered in a manner that favors any demographic group, nor in a manner which ignores deficiencies in an individual based upon that person's membership in a demographic group.
The hiring referenced in the OP should not have happened. It is discriminatory against males who were also unable to pass the physical test, even as it unnecessarily endangers public safety.
What they did was dumb-down the requirements to recruit more women before "da judge" orders them to.
This dame flunked the fitness component of the test (after multiple attempts) but she aced the written test.
Sorta like acing the written test to get your driver's permit, and failing the road test.
Maybe they will limit her duties to working behind a desk, working the phones, etc.
Otherwise all fire fighters would be men 18 to 30 as the next generation of the most physically capable men move forward and are able to haul more weight up stairs and heavier victims out or burning buildings is being born but looked out by old men holding on to that premier job.
Some of those "older" men are promoted to positions that don't require making entry. They become engineers, scene/incident commanders, etc.
Some of those "older" men are promoted to positions that don't require making entry. They become engineers, scene/incident commanders, etc.
You bet... and there is little substitution for experience .
Many regular California firefighters have to pass the cpat test every year
Seasonal calfire firefighters go through a yearly rehire academy that has a pt component. Once they get to engines... engine captains are encouraged to have pt sessions every shift
Even county volunteers have to go through stress physical including treadmill and strength tests
80 pounds lifted from floor to waist.. 60 from floor to shelf chest high.. 40 from floor to over head ... push a 220 pound sled 30 feet... 30 minutes on the treadmill at 7 mph .. strength to weight ratio grip strength... flexibility tests..
Then the actual physical .. drug test.. x rays etc etc etc.. vision.. hearing ..all the standard stuff... especially back condition... a commonly injured part of the body
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Sorta like acing the written test to get your driver's permit, and failing the road test.
