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Old 05-14-2015, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,327,268 times
Reputation: 20827

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowerPower00 View Post

Do you believe his lawyer advised the engineer to say so?
I have absolutely no doubt he's "lawyering up".

But beyond that, everything is speculative at this point.

It has been just over 25 years since Amtraks' last major "Corridor/HSR" accident at Chase, MD -- where a Conrail engineer named Ricky Gates decided watching a football game was more important than his duty, and several people died. I can attest that operating employees are closely monitored, tested for drugs, and I can also attest that the job produces, and demands, a perfectionistic, obsessive/compulsive mentality that simply does not fit everyone's personality.

But at the time of Amtrak's last reinforcement of safety and behavioral rules, the individual in question would have been about seven years old -- the Internet was just emerging at the time, and the battle of "my space/time" vs. "company space/time" was a lot less intense than it is now.

Over the next few months or years, new and supposedly-stronger rules are going to be formulated -- just as with the Gates incident. But too many of those currently passing judgment have little exposure to the unique culture, high demands, and clash with those pressures originating in personal life that a number of occupations (airline pilots and traffic controllers, operating railroaders, police and firefighters, and certain hazardous, continuous-process manufacturing) have to deal with every day.

There will be changes, and the new fix might hold for decades to come. But as with our attempts to regulate and micromanage our economy, the pressures which always turn up somewhere else when a "safety valve" is tied down will simply manifest themselves in some other form.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 05-14-2015 at 08:57 AM..
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,998 posts, read 12,926,582 times
Reputation: 8365
Give him a break-he was tired from drinking all night.
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:30 AM
 
16,551 posts, read 8,589,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
Could be narcolepsy. Or texting . . .

Lawyer is ethically not allowed to advise the client to lie. Though the engineer could have asked, "What happens if I cannot remember anything?"

Mick
That is what my money is on. Of course he could have been distracted watching a movie on his phone, but I'd bet it involved a smart phone whether it be social media/texting/gaming etc.
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,553 posts, read 10,611,270 times
Reputation: 36572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minethatbird View Post
I believe the engineer hit a curve doing at least twice the posted speed limit.

What infrastructure investments (ie spending bills) should Republicans approve that would prevent these sort of things from happening?
Encase the trains in bubble wrap! Put gigantic guard rails next to all curves!
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,327,268 times
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As the regulars here are probably aware, I'm both a railroad buff, and a person who was lucky enough to get some front-line exposure to Amtrak operations in the mid-1990's.

As in the past, I've posted a link to a forum at railroad.net which is frequented by people able to find closer exposure early-on, as this sad story unfolds.

RAILROAD.NET • View topic - Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,327,268 times
Reputation: 20827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
That is what my money is on. Of course he could have been distracted watching a movie on his phone, but I'd bet it involved a smart phone whether it be social media/texting/gaming etc.
When I was working for Amtrak twenty years ago, employees in possession of commercial radios or TV while on duty (a "firing offense") could be suspended immediately. But at the same time, those working the "extra board", who could be compelled to work on two hours notice at any hour of day or night, were encouraged to carry "beepers", or cell phones (just emerging at the time).

That was a long time before the emergence of texting, 4G and similar technology, and I'm not completely current as to what pressures are out there today, or how they're handled. But the emphasis, from management's point of view, has always been on complete micromanagement of the employee, and I'm sure that hasn't eased. Whether an employee would be foolish enough to violate that policy is something upon which I can't speculate.

But the link below is to a site frequented by both rail buffs and operating railroaders, and might provide some insight.

RAILROAD.NET • View topic - Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Don't look to the politicians for a quick fix; most of them are clueless.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 05-14-2015 at 08:53 AM..
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:46 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,974 posts, read 27,001,123 times
Reputation: 15645
Quote:
Originally Posted by calculator View Post
I think the driver of the train was sleeping. Solutions to this could be that the conductor has to touch something on the controls or the train slows down. Or there could be two people running the train. Or have something like what they have for planes, tower control. Only in this case, there's a camera and capability to run the train from elsewhere. There's been far too many problems lately.
I believe there's a "dead man switch" on trains that require constant foot pressure for the train to run. Maybe it's time for car technology advances to cross over? Example, the system that reads eye movements etc to discern if the driver is drowsy?

Volvo has created the Driver Alert system. If the car concludes that the driver is drowsing (more on that later), it issues an audible alarm, and an icon depicting a cup of coffee flashes on the instrument panel [source: Edmunds]. Saab has a similar arrangement. The company's Driver Attention Warning System uses a voice alarm: If a driver is nodding off, the car announces "You are tired," followed by "You are dangerously tired! Stop as soon as it is safe to do so!" The driver's seat also vibrates to help rouse him or her [source: Forbes Autos].

Saab's onboard computer uses facial recognition software to determine if you're drowsing. Night vision cameras trained on your face analyze slackening facial muscles, your blinking patterns and how long your eyes stay closed between blinks. Once it concludes you're no longer awake, the system kicks in to rouse you from your dangerous slumber
Drowsy Driver Alert Systems - HowStuffWorks
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:56 AM
 
17,604 posts, read 17,635,928 times
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They should check his phone and phone records. Surprised they don't have video in the engineers compartment like city buses have installed facing the driver.
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,087 posts, read 9,833,314 times
Reputation: 6650
If one is in the driving compartment can you notice if you are nearly double the posted speed? I mean even if not looking at gauges or out the windows for reference? Is the engine louder and the rhythm of the wheels rolling on the tracks more pronounced? Few occasions I traveled by train I noticed the interval as a way of gauging speed without even looking out the window.
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:59 AM
 
17,400 posts, read 11,969,121 times
Reputation: 16152
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
Prior freight engineer and conductor here.

According to news reports, this is one of the few areas of the NE Corridor where Positive Train Control is not in effect.

The engineer just left the last station 10 minutes earlier. This was either the case of falling asleep at the throttle, or a deliberate act.

I never ran on this stretch of track, but when I worked for CSX 15 years ago, my route ended just a hair west at Eastside Yard / RG Tower. Amtrak trains can gain speed much faster than freights due to their light weight. In any regards, hitting this stretch of track at over twice the speed limit is incomprehensible.

I'm very curious to see the facts surrounding this tragedy, and something tells me that job insurance is not gonna protect this engineer.
I'm guessing he was busy texting and lost track of what he was doing. The fact that he lawyered up has me convinced.
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