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Similar to how anyone who thinks of a 3 week old collection of cells as a person (with a "soul") is a delusional idiot. At that stage it's about an 8th of an inch long.
People fundamentally misunderstand what life is and what being an animal (or a "person") is, how consciousness is a bit of human illusion, and how we're biological machines. They like to attribute this sense of wonder and majesty to human life (though there've been by some counts about 110 Billion of us), and they swear by the concept of the magical "soul" as a lazy model to describe how it feels like we're special and individual. Humans are an astonishingly arrogant species. We think because we've developed a central consciousness of sorts that we have license to rule and use all other species (and the planet) supremely.
people who think THEY get to determine what is a life and what isn't are also delusional idiots...to many anyways...
I think its very arrogant for a person to try and tell someone when an embryo/fetus/zygot/baby whatever is a person and when they are not...who the HELL are we to determine that...does a brain and heart have to be there...does it have to be able to live on its own? Why not just call it a parasite?? When does it have a soul, how the hell does anyone know when it acquires this soul?? There are SO MANY arguments here and its just politics
when that egg is fertilized, you have created a human life...if splitting hairs makes pro abortionists feel better about when its murdered, that's their own bs, not mine...
again I have been pro choice for a long time...but I am not fooling myself...abortion in my opinion is murder...except in extreme cases when the moms life is in serious danger/risk...
I do. See earlier posts by me (and a few others) in this thread.
I advocate early (and often) detection and early action. Flush the thing out as soon as feasible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky2balive
When does it have a soul?
A "soul" is a nebulous concept at best. There's no rigor behind it. It's magical thinking. But... I suppose the closest real-world analogue for the "soul" is consciousness / self-awareness / cognition. I think therefore I am. The thing that stitches together my various sensory inputs and disparate processing centers into a semblance of coherent oneness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky2balive
...if splitting hairs makes pro abortionists feel better about when it's murdered, that's their own bs, not mine...
Calling it murder doesn't phase me either. Meat is murder. The story of life on earth is a story full of murder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky2balive
...abortion in my opinion is murder...except in extreme cases when the mom's life is in serious danger/risk...
No no, abortion is still murder in those "extreme cases," you're just deeming it justifiable murder. My yardstick for what is justifiable is just in a different place from yours.
What do you think of the Morning After Pill? $39.99 at Walgreen's. Can be taken within 72 hours of ejaculation. Prevents implantation. Is that murder too?
Federally-subsidized Morning After Pills would be nice. 10 for $19.99.
No no, abortion is still murder in those "extreme cases," you're just deeming it justifiable murder. My yardstick for what is justifiable is just in a different place from yours.
Perfect response. Murder is murder is murder! The only variable is is whether or not it is justified. Unless of course, you consider that you can't "murder" a potential person.
Partial birth abortion is sort of old news. The baby is turned so the feet present first. Before the head is out of the birth canal, the abortionist/murderer stabs the brain stem with scissors, successfully killing the not completely born child.
Great attempt at misdirection.
Once again, a single case of a nine-month-old, fully-formed fetus being aborted?
Considering relentless social re-engineering that took place in the past decades and its liberation memes: "Live life to its fullest", "you owe it to yourself" and the rest of uber selfishness conditioning that passes for women liberation, it is a miracle some women still have regrets and remorses about anything unrelated to social climbing and hooking up with promising guys, not in my circle though.
Considering relentless social re-engineering that took place in the past decades and its liberation memes: "Live life to its fullest", "you owe it to yourself" and the rest of uber selfishness conditioning that passes for women liberation, it is a miracle some women still have regrets and remorses about anything unrelated to social climbing and hooking up with promising guys, not in my circle though.
Are you serious? That last time I saw the kind of "social engineering" you are talking about was in the 60's. What I see now is manipulation to make us tacitly accept a Government run by multi-national corporations. We are taught that questioning them, or trying to limit some of their most egregious acts is tantamount to treason and that our failures are fault of personal behavior, or lack of ambition or character flaws as manifested through "poor shaming"
I can understand once, people make mistakes and accidents happen. But if you keep getting pregnant and don't want to and have abortions as a result, then let us not hide behind the bushes, that woman is irresponsible.
We have different types of contraceptions. of course there are other good reasons for abortions like incest, rape etc.
People would rather think these kind of women don't exist. Those who stick up for abortion as a women's right,
I have to ask, "have any of you ever been in an abortion clinic? Have you ever went through the procedure of the planned parenthood nurse asking simple questions that only pertain to you and NEVER about the baby the person is carrying? Planned Parenthood doesn't provide options, they tell the person there is ONLY one solution.
I believe women should have a choice, but educate these young girls before they become pregnant. It isn't mature women having most of the abortions.......
Are you serious? That last time I saw the kind of "social engineering" you are talking about was in the 60's. What I see now is manipulation to make us tacitly accept a Government run by multi-national corporations. We are taught that questioning them, or trying to limit some of their most egregious acts is tantamount to treason and that our failures are fault of personal behavior, or lack of ambition or character flaws as manifested through "poor shaming"
How that contradicts to what I typed? Feminism and other marginal (in the past) noncomformists crawled in the big corporate bed to have some mutually beneficial relationships. Corporate goal is to have an isolated, perpetually anxious, rootless, gender neutral worker bee whose relative safety lies only in the selling his/her labor to the corporate collective. Since cutting edge social visionaries and radicals destroy very imperfect, and brutal at the times, social fabric, they are natural allies of the corporatists and marketeers. The end.
Women (under carefull watch of the liberators) undermined institution of family and those archaic things it stands for (it doesnt really allow life to its fullest), now they are on the total mercy of the corporatists and/or big bad government. That job and plastic are the only two things they can rely on. Lower middle class women are real losers. They trashed families and communities but their career rewards are highly inadequate to buy a liberated illusion even counting in massive welfare programs subsidizing social collapse.
Last edited by RememberMee; 07-24-2015 at 09:17 AM..
It would be interesting to see if there is any correlation between expressed regret and how early or late the abortion was performed.
I would imagine the number of women who regret use of the morning after pill or medication that induce an early miscarriage have fewer regrets than those whose abortions were later, and who were aware of the stage of development of the fetus. A woman whose birth control fails may be less likely to feel regret.
I understand that women who do not discover until later in pregnancy that they are carrying a child who might well not survive the birthing process, and/or have inherited a fatal diseases like Tays-Sachs that would make the child's life short and painful, or defects like anencephaly, etc. may very well feel no regret for later term abortions. The same may go for women for whom a full term pregnancy poses a danger to their own life.
My guess would be that women who abort healthy, later-term fetuses (especially if they see the remains) would be the ones with the most regrets.
My personal moral opposition to abortion rises with the development of the fetus. Medicine has advanced greatly with regard to the survival of prematurely born infants since Roe v. Wade. If there's a decent chance the child would survive a premature birth, I think we should at least consider whether it deserves greater legal protection from being aborted. The idea that a child must first draw breath outside the womb before it is considered a life is pretty callous IMHO.
It would be nice if the rational center could arrive at a policy somewhere between the protection of frozen embryos and those who support abortion for any reason at any time.
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