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You went from claiming standards were not changed and even more stringent today, to saying "because you can't test for things that aren't relevant to doing the job. For decades standards were designed to keep women and minorities out of the competition" .
Of course your liberal extrapolation that standards were put into place to keep people out is absurd on it's face to all but the most liberal loons. The ability to chop through a door with a fire axe or advance with a charged hose are basic skills every single firefighter was required to do, and certainly part of the skill necessary to do the job.
Doing rescue climbs and descents in full gear with equipment (i.e. SCBA) and a 150lb dummy in specific times is also something that is vital. Yet people of your ilk have pushed for standards to be lowered under the false narrative that standards were put into place to keep women out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy
There have been challenges to testing standards for at least the last 30 years because you can't test for things that aren't relevant to doing the job. For decades standards were designed to keep women and minorities out of the competition,
There is no pompier ladder that can meet the NFPA annual testing requirements. If there was such a ladder, it would probably be too heavy to use as a scaling ladder. Since the 1960's, most high-rise new construction is Type II with glass curtain walls. The glass prevents pompier ladders from being used in those structures - and no one makes them anymore DUH.
More akin to "DUH" on your part. If something is no longer used, of course they will stop being produced, at least in this country. The fact you seem to want to elude is that because women did not have the upper body strength to use them, they were taken out of service, eventually everywhere. The two main reasons were because of the aforementioned, and they were dangerous to use. Still their rarity today is based on an accommodation for women getting hired, not their lack of function.
Not all construction fits your description, especially in smaller rural areas and places where older & historical buildings are exempt/grandfathered. But my point does not rest alone on a ladder most people would have no clue what it even looks like, much less it function. Still you cannot deny that if you were waiting for other equipment to arrive to survive, you'd pray one was available, and the firefighter was strong enough to properly us it to reach you. I'd much rather have every possible tool at my disposal to save a life, rather than be limited due to "diversity goals".
You are partially correct, but mostly wrong. A disproportionate number of blacks were eliminated, but the requirement was changed of EVERYONE and the reason was that swimming was not skill necessary to doing to the job, they were hiring firefighters not lifeguards. There are NO public agencies in the US that have different tests depending upon ethnicity or gender.
Wrong on every aspect of this absurd statement.
What is really amazing is that you are making these sweeping and blanket statements as if you know what you are talking about.
In reality you are either ignorant on these subjects or are flat out lying.
Many departments, including the specific one I know where this occurred (Miami, FL) need their firefighters to do water rescues. This of course is not only based on the stations responsible for the coastline and intra-coastal regions, but the thousands of lakes, ponds, canals and swimming pools where rescues occur. In most of those places there are no lifeguards, and the paramedics/firefighters must be able to swim to save people.
Where are you coming up with the rubbish you are posting, thin air?
That sir is a fantasy of unparalleled proportions. There are never different standards in range qualification and here is why. Your qualification records are part of your permanent record, if you are involved in a shooting incident those records become relevant. A supervisor would have to be insane to jeopardize his/her job by falsifying records- the only time I have heard of that in a very long time was the case where the old pretend cop who shot the guy with what he thought was a taser had apparently been able to coerce personnel into falsifying training documents and I bet it never happens there again.
For starters, what don't you understand about ranges qualification vs. an actual shoot and the stuff you went on to blither about, having nothing to do with my example? The RM didn't want to pass many of the women who were incompetent, but couldn't weed them out because they were under a court order to have X amount hired by X date.
If most were failed at the range, heads would have rolled anyway. So the brass decided to get them through as fast as they could, and held their breath hoping most wouldn't need to use their sidearms. This is not to say all females cannot shoot, as that is not the case. But in the push to meet hiring quotas, they needed as many women as possible, as fast as possible. This regardless of whether they were competent or not.
Your speculation does not comport with the actual things that went on, but you are free to assume you know more based on your own disbelief of the absurd things that did occur.
Oh please, NO Public agency would ignore criminal records, heads would roll if that employee was involved in a criminal incident while employed, you can't just make criminal records go away- whatever are you thinking?
As usual it sounds crazy to you, therefore without the requisite knowledge of what actually happened, you assume it is a fallacy.
Therefore we must assume you have never heard of the "Miami River Cops" before.
The department was under a CD to hire a bunch of minorities quickly, especially Hispanics which at the time were considered "under represented".......
I was going to take the time to type out the whole history and story, but you can look it up for yourself. Just try to use a reliable source, not something like Wiki, the tool of the lazy and ignorant.
That's really all you had to say. You don't want anyone but white guys getting these jobs. tsk tsk too bad for you it's not still 1950...cry me a river.
I guess you missed the part where I pointed out how incompetent white men are also now hired due to the original physical/mental/educational standards being lowered.
I do not want any incompetent cop/paramedic/firefighter hired, as they are charged with saving our families lives in emergencies. But to liberal social engineers, they want to promote their screwed up view on how life should be, and disregard public safety in the process.
The physical aptitude tests men and women take are not the same. I am suggesting women pass the same test men take. However that would be a waste of my money due to the resulting washout and injury rate. Women officers have massively higher injury rates than male officers.
At least in California they are exactly the same, the tests are administered at the same site, at the same time, and have identical requirements for men and women. And please prove your claim of "massively higher injury rates". Just making baseless statements like that without providing some kind of factual basis for the claims doesn't lend much credibility to your arguments.
Women are being encouraged to take up sport as never before. But new evidence suggests it can have a devastating effect on their bodies. Anna Kessel asks what's being done to prevent an unlikely 'epidemic'
At least in California they are exactly the same, the tests are administered at the same site, at the same time, and have identical requirements for men and women. And please prove your claim of "massively higher injury rates". Just making baseless statements like that without providing some kind of factual basis for the claims doesn't lend much credibility to your arguments.
So says the kettle to the pot, living in a glass house.
Just because you are ignorant on some facts on this subject matter hardly means it is other posters responsibility to educate you.
While I and others are certainly willing to set you straight with some information, you sound more like a koolaid drinker who sticks to their preconceived notions in spite of well known facts (i.e. existence of criminals hired to be cops to meet minority quota mandates).
[color=blue]Now everyone knows you are full of it.
You went from claiming standards were not changed and even more stringent today, to saying "because you can't test for things that aren't relevant to doing the job. For decades standards were designed to keep women and minorities out of the competition"Of course your liberal extrapolation that standards were put into place to keep people out is absurd on it's face to all but the most liberal loons.
By saying they became more stringent, that infers that they were changed. The changes that you don't like were the ones which removed gender or ethnic bias. The changes I was referring to were those added to test aerobic and anaerobic fitness which were not a core component of testing in the past. I'm not going to waste more of my time reading baseless claims all dressed up in "blue", sorry but I have better things to do. Anyone who is interested and wants to know what a police or fire applicant fitness test consists of can view many examples on youtube, there's no point in continuing this discussion, particularly with someone as churlish as you are being today.
Yes, we should make our police only women and only black. Problems will disappear overnight.
We should make our society only women. A huge list of problems would mostly disappear. This will not happen overnight. It will take generations, and extensive new technological and societal paradigms. I think in the long run, men need to go away. 100-150 years, maybe 250 years from now -- my personal view is there is no place for males in the space-faring future of the species.
Most shootings are justified. Not all but most of them are. Women officers are very good and I think of a fantastic LAPD officer who was shot by the guy she was chasing. Kristine Ripetti. She was seen on Extreme Home Makeover (years ago) because she ended up paralyzed after chasing the guy. They outfitted her home here in the South Bay (Redondo Beach) so she could be self sufficient. Never think that women officers are wussys...they train just like the males.
Don't argue with Law Enforcement - do as you are told - if arrested - remain calm. Cops are human beings. They do not go into work thinking, I'm going to kill someone today. Are you kidding me? These guys/gals have families.
By saying they became more stringent, that infers that they were changed. The changes that you don't like were the ones which removed gender or ethnic bias. The changes I was referring to were those added to test aerobic and anaerobic fitness which were not a core component of testing in the past. I'm not going to waste more of my time reading baseless claims all dressed up in "blue", sorry but I have better things to do. Anyone who is interested and wants to know what a police or fire applicant fitness test consists of can view many examples on youtube, there's no point in continuing this discussion, particularly with someone as churlish as you are being today.
Classic
Many an ignorant person on a subject they know nothing about, has their sophomoric half baked weaksause challenged with facts. Instead of trying to defend the indefensible, they claim to be above it, and disengage.
I knew deep down inside you would not have the stomach to try to defend your false narratives and assertions, and would tuck tale and run.
So bravo, between your post to me and dpm1 just go to prove the aforementioned.
We should make our society only women. A huge list of problems would mostly disappear. This will not happen overnight. It will take generations, and extensive new technological and societal paradigms. I think in the long run, men need to go away. 100-150 years, maybe 250 years from now -- my personal view is there is no place for males in the space-faring future of the species.
You only make such comments because of the inventions and science based solutions created primarily by men.
If the world remains on course without a catastrophic disaster, women could survive with the technological advancements given to the world by mostly men.
But if the SHTF, women will be right back dependent on men for a majority of the things we have always been good at providing, like physical protection and hunting to feed the family.
Then again, so many men might be feminized by then, they will not be capable of dealing with a future without power and modern technology any better than women would.
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