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I think it's that entitlement "you didn't build that" mindset where people seem to believe private business should belong to the public. That's the only way I can envision them coming to the conclusions they do.
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Originally Posted by whocares811
Just for my own personal clarification and understanding --
Is it now meaningless for businesses to post signs stating, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone?"
(Serious question.)
Correct. They feel people have a right to "have it their way" at a burger joint.
A business is not "private" if it offers goods or services to the "public". If you want a truly "private" business which is not subject to government laws and regulations, then you need to open a "club" or fraternal organization where you can make your own rules, otherwise your business is subject to the law. It has nothing to do with "hurt feelings", or are you still stuck in the segregated mindset of the 50's and 60's? Are there other groups you would like to legislate against serving besides gays? I'm sure you can think of at least one. Hey, my relatives had to wear a yellow Star of David on their clothing in 1930s' Germany. Maybe they should have overlooked it and just suppressed their "hurt feelings."
A business is not "private" if it offers goods or services to the "public". If you want a truly "private" business which is not subject to government laws and regulations, then you need to open a "club" or fraternal organization where you can make your own rules, otherwise your business is subject to the law. It has nothing to do with "hurt feelings", or are you still stuck in the segregated mindset of the 50's and 60's? Are there other groups you would like to legislate against serving besides gays? I'm sure you can think of at least one. Hey, my relatives had to wear a yellow Star of David on their clothing in 1930s' Germany. Maybe they should have overlooked it and just suppressed their "hurt feelings."
Clubs are not subject to laws? Why is it you are OK with clubs banning people? Are you really trying to equate a government forcing a people into subjugation and a business refusing service?
I'm not OK with clubs banning people. I'm only stating that, as far as I know, the only way that you can avoid - if you wish - the legal requirement to serve ALL members of the public with your public business is to open a private, exclusive club. Personally I think that is a discriminatory action, but it may serve one's purpose of evading the law. I don't believe that the government's enforcement of anti-discriminatory laws for ALL public business is subjugating anyone. You or anyone else have the right to open a public business which is subject to certain laws: tax laws, health and safety laws, environmental laws; and anti-discriminatory laws. You can choose to follow those laws or be fined, sued, or, depending on the law (health and safety for instance), shut down. It's not subjugation; it's simply the law. If you regard it as subjugation, you are always free to establish your own kingdom in another location, you know.
Can I just ask ( as I don't at all understand ) surely as its HIS business he can serve whoever he's wants to regardless whether or not ppl are gay, black, white, tall , short , fat , thin etc
It's his choice surely
Right. Whatever happened to "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?
Sorry, but you know it is just hurt feelings. It's no different than if a neighbor doesn't want to have anything to do with you due to race, sexual preference, your ethnic background or even your economic class.
The only protection a person should receive is from government sanctions or essential services.
Other than that, it's just hurt feeling no matter if you describe it as "being second class" or any other term.
Talking to you is like arguing with a door pointless.
Also as others stated essential services are limited to x factors such as specialties, distance and availability.
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Tell me what factors you need clarification on, and I'll make as much known as you'd like.
I mentioned them in my last post, service response time, quality of service, response time and quality in regards to other patrons, food quality, how personal they are, if accommodations are fairly equal or not. That kind of stuff.
I'm not OK with clubs banning people. I'm only stating that, as far as I know, the only way that you can avoid - if you wish - the legal requirement to serve ALL members of the public with your public business is to open a private, exclusive club. Personally I think that is a discriminatory action, but it may serve one's purpose of evading the law. I don't believe that the government's enforcement of anti-discriminatory laws for ALL public business is subjugating anyone. You or anyone else have the right to open a public business which is subject to certain laws: tax laws, health and safety laws, environmental laws; and anti-discriminatory laws. You can choose to follow those laws or be fined, sued, or, depending on the law (health and safety for instance), shut down. It's not subjugation; it's simply the law. If you regard it as subjugation, you are always free to establish your own kingdom in another location, you know.
So who exactly has the right to freely associate?
Public businesses? Sorry wtf are you talking about. You dont live in Venezuela.
Public businesses? Sorry wtf are you talking about. You dont live in Venezuela.
The law does not define a business selling goods to consumers as freedom of association. You keep telling us these laws are "illegal". Since you purport to know Moe about what is legal and what is not than why don't you tell us all the laws that are constitutional and all the ones which aren't. With a genius like you zIp don't know why we waste tax dollars on a Congress and a court system. This ought to be fun.
The law does not define a business selling goods to consumers as freedom of association. You keep telling us these laws are "illegal". Since you purport to know Moe about what is legal and what is not than why don't you tell us all the laws that are constitutional and all the ones which aren't. With a genius like you zIp don't know why we waste tax dollars on a Congress and a court system. This ought to be fun.
We just need a government take over of all business. That will solve it as government action that discriminates is clearly illegal.
No businesses for people, no pesky freedom of association to deal with. I mean hey if the LAW says people cant own businesses, whats the problem?
So it is LEGAL to detain people because they were born outside of the US charged with no crime and here legally (Japanese Americans) But ILLEGAL to serve who you wish in your private business. Makes sense I mean hey, its is only OK if the government does it.
Yes, it would be hurt feelings. I think I've been very clear in all of my posts that say over and over that it's either convenience or hurt feelings if non-essential businesses were allowed to discriminate.
Let's say you were dating a black lady and the two of you went to a restaurant for dinner. The hostess seats you in a back corner. You notice that all the other diners were white families and you were seated away from them. You enjoy your meal, so the next weekend you take her to the same restaurant, and once again the two of you were seated in the back corner. Do you feel this would be an issue if you received good food and service, if so, why?
I don't wish you ill will but I hope you are able to learn some day what its like to be discriminated against and then you will understand.
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