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Old 08-24-2015, 02:50 PM
 
Location: southern kansas
9,127 posts, read 9,279,643 times
Reputation: 21292

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
You can't treat men and women equally when it comes to having a baby because only one of us can actually carry, give birth to, and nurse a baby: women.

Women aren't asking for special treatment. We're asking for fair treatment given the biological burden on US to give birth to children.
Yes you are if you're asking other people to help pay for it.
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Old 08-24-2015, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia Area
1,720 posts, read 1,311,229 times
Reputation: 1353
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Too true. I know so many women who have had to resort to expensive and/or invasive fertility treatments in order to have children because they had to put in so many years at company X to become indispensable so they wouldn't get canned right after returning from maternity leave.

Regardless, it still happened to a couple of them.

I know one woman who quit a private sector job and got a job teaching just so she wouldn't have to worry about losing everything if she wanted to have a baby. She finally had #1 at 40. Another woman I know just had #1 at 42.

We're trying for #1 at 40.
And what does that tell you and the other titans of reason on this thread?

Perhaps, maybe, as all of recorded history shows, and biology dictates (as you've just illustrated above)women are not meant to have a "career" like a man and that their primary purpose IF they want to have a family is to care for that said family in the domestic realm.

And to go along with another point I think needs to be said concerning this thread I would say to anyone taking an honest assessment of where the economy is and where it's heading I believe it needs to be said that if you're not in the minimum top 10-20% of all income earners and wealth holders in the country then you're nuts for wanting to bring a newborn into this current paradigm.

I consider bringing a child into this world as it is currently structured economically as well as morally an act of child cruelty. And I mean that unless you have the means to be able to take care of that said person in the long term. Taking care of yourself and or a family outside the top 20% of income earners is becoming increasingly prohibitive for the lower 80% of society.

The lower 50-60% of jobs are practically worthless and hardly worth doing and the next 20% will have you struggling mightily. And it's only going to get worse.
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Old 08-24-2015, 03:04 PM
 
2,540 posts, read 2,742,637 times
Reputation: 3891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
I can see it from both sides, having a child is not a right and some businesses may be burdened (current maternity leave only affects businesses with greater than 50 employees). On the other hand, having a child is something that is natural and can happen at any time.
Nope, it's nobody's duty in life to have children. The minute you make the choice to bring a child into the world, then that's entirely on you. It's your responsibility, not anyone else's.
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Old 08-24-2015, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,695 posts, read 28,350,352 times
Reputation: 35862
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
You can't treat men and women equally when it comes to having a baby because only one of us can actually carry, give birth to, and nurse a baby: women.

Women aren't asking for special treatment. We're asking for fair treatment given the biological burden on US to give birth to children.
Yes, you are asking for special treatment. You are asking for time off for your life-decision. If someone else wants to have time off for a decision that is equally as important to them, like taking care of an elderly parent with pay or to go to school, they should be allowed to have that time if a woman or man, because men are being included in NetFlix's maternity leave as well.

The decision to reproduce should not carry any more weight than any other important decision requiring time off.

Working people have plenty of "burdens" placed on them. Many require the need for time off. The Family Leave Act allows for taking care of sick family members as an example but that only guarantees the worker will not lose his or her job. It does not guarantee a paycheck while he or she is off work. Taking off to go to school full time to better one's career usually means the employee with have to quit his or her job.

Giving everyone the same amount of time to do the things they either want or need to do is fair, singling out just one situation, mandatory pay for maternity leave is not.
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Old 08-24-2015, 03:18 PM
 
2,606 posts, read 2,692,775 times
Reputation: 3550
I would be happy if companies offered to have a position for women after taking few year long career break. I don't want the money but I don't want to start my career from scratch & rebuild it all over again just because I choose to stay with my baby.
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Old 08-24-2015, 03:34 PM
 
Location: City Data Land
17,156 posts, read 12,889,833 times
Reputation: 33164
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
You can't treat men and women equally when it comes to having a baby because only one of us can actually carry, give birth to, and nurse a baby: women.

Women aren't asking for special treatment. We're asking for fair treatment given the biological burden on US to give birth to children.
Incorrect. Special treatment is exactly what you're asking for. I'm a woman who has never asked for that privilege (which is what it is) because I chose not to have kids. Let's not forget that one can parent without reproducing biologically as well. Since I am of childbearing age, I have gone so far as to explicitly say at job interviews that I have no children and am physically incapable of becoming pregnant (which is true) to increase my chances of getting a job, since employers cannot legally ask those questions. That information may have helped me in interviews, because I have received a job offer at every company I've ever interviewed with in my career.
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Old 08-24-2015, 03:46 PM
 
Location: southern kansas
9,127 posts, read 9,279,643 times
Reputation: 21292
Quote:
Originally Posted by keraT View Post
I would be happy if companies offered to have a position for women after taking few year long career break. I don't want the money but I don't want to start my career from scratch & rebuild it all over again just because I choose to stay with my baby.
Do you expect them create a position if it doesn't exist, or keep the position you used to do even though the business has advanced beyond that (perhaps technology-wise), and your previous experience would no longer be enough? Or would it be more fair for you to upgrade your skills to the standards required?
Many professionals have to regularly keep up on advances in their fields to be able to compete and do the best job they can (doctors, attorneys, engineers, etc.). Besides, it was you who chose to leave and have a child, so shouldn't you be responsible to keep yourself employable when your ready to re-enter the work force?
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Old 08-24-2015, 03:58 PM
 
2,564 posts, read 1,628,596 times
Reputation: 10069
Quote:
Originally Posted by keraT View Post
I would be happy if companies offered to have a position for women after taking few year long career break. I don't want the money but I don't want to start my career from scratch & rebuild it all over again just because I choose to stay with my baby.
Then companies should be required to have a position for everyone who chooses to drop out for a few years, whether they are male or female, young or old, and no matter why they choose to do this.
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Old 08-24-2015, 04:17 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,704,117 times
Reputation: 22085
Quote:
You can't treat men and women equally when it comes to having a baby because only one of us can actually carry, give birth to, and nurse a baby: women.

Women aren't asking for special treatment. We're asking for fair treatment given the biological burden on US to give birth to children.
No you are asking for special treatment. I am the father of our 5 children so I am aware what goes on.

On the other hand, why should other employees suffer because someone has a baby. Lets look at what is happening.

1: If every new mother got 6 months paid leave when she has a baby, who replaces her at work? That is going to cost the company to replace her for 6 months. If there are several young women at that company, the company has to set aside the money to replace that mother for 6 months while it continues to pay her. That means people will not be getting wage raises, or will have to take pay cuts to be able to come up with that money, as their are only so many dollars from the company that can be allotted for wages and benefits. The smaller the company, the more important it is, that the pay for all workers be reduced, so they have the money to cover the potential maternity leaves for women employees.

Question: Is it fair that other co-workers have to take a pay cut, or give up wage increases, so the company can afford to pay for 6 months maternity leave for a new mother.

2: If Women get 6 months maternity leave, then all employees should have the right to take a 2 week sabbatical leave every couple of years if they do not have a new child to be fair to every one.

Question: Is it far to other employees that do not have a new baby, that they have to work but the new mother gets 6 months off with pay just because she has a new child? That is discrimination against the men, and discrimination is against the law.

Women have been fighting to make men and women equal in the workplace. Equal pay. Equal rights to a job. Now they want a special paid sabbatical so they are no longer equal but way superior to men.
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Old 08-24-2015, 04:35 PM
 
Location: BC, Arizona
1,170 posts, read 1,016,562 times
Reputation: 2378
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
No you are asking for special treatment. I am the father of our 5 children so I am aware what goes on.

On the other hand, why should other employees suffer because someone has a baby. Lets look at what is happening.

1: If every new mother got 6 months paid leave when she has a baby, who replaces her at work? That is going to cost the company to replace her for 6 months. If there are several young women at that company, the company has to set aside the money to replace that mother for 6 months while it continues to pay her. That means people will not be getting wage raises, or will have to take pay cuts to be able to come up with that money, as their are only so many dollars from the company that can be allotted for wages and benefits. The smaller the company, the more important it is, that the pay for all workers be reduced, so they have the money to cover the potential maternity leaves for women employees.

Question: Is it fair that other co-workers have to take a pay cut, or give up wage increases, so the company can afford to pay for 6 months maternity leave for a new mother.

2: If Women get 6 months maternity leave, then all employees should have the right to take a 2 week sabbatical leave every couple of years if they do not have a new child to be fair to every one.

Question: Is it far to other employees that do not have a new baby, that they have to work but the new mother gets 6 months off with pay just because she has a new child? That is discrimination against the men, and discrimination is against the law.

Women have been fighting to make men and women equal in the workplace. Equal pay. Equal rights to a job. Now they want a special paid sabbatical so they are no longer equal but way superior to men.
Unless you gave birth 5 times you have no idea what you're talking about. Forget paid leave for a moment, the rampant sexism in health care generally is a starting point. If a man has a hernia he will spend longer in hospital and take more time off work (often paid through medical) than women receive after child birth.

You know nothing whatsoever about equality policy or the legislation governing workplaces, yet purport to be an expert because you can breed.

I've always wondered why the U.S. has the absolute craziest political scene, reading these threads makes me understand who votes for those people.

Without some form of support after childbirth you're supporting inequality - effectively saying women have no real place in the workplace, they should breed and stay home and care for kids that both a man and woman made (while men work).

As for the "I didn't have kids so why should another family be supported in spending more of those critical first few months with their children posters" - I sure hope you don't expect future taxpayers to pay for anything for you when your old and childless, because guess who raised those kids without any help from you? It's especially disappointing to see women dumping on other women and it makes me wonder where the bitterness comes from.
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