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On a serious note..... The police are conditioned to treat African American males as criminals. The police tend to not live in areas where their neighbors are black. Its very hard to humanize people you see as subhuman and other. As a result its easy to assume that every black male is guilty of something and needs to be pulled over and grilled. The problem is that soon that will be the norm for all citizens not just our second class black citizens. That day will come soon enough folks.
Every black person from the time they are old enough to understand " 8 or 9 years old" is taught by their parents survival in America. Rule number one is NEVER engage the police unless you HAVE to. Don't ask for directions.. Don't ask them for a jump..... Don't call them to complain that your neighbors music is to loud..... And definitely don't make direct eye contact.... Also turn any antiestablishment music or talk radio off when in earshot of the police. If the police pull you over , lower your eyes, stay still, say yes massa and no massa and if asked to step out of vehicle tapdance and sing....
I got pulled over once for driving a car without a tag...it was a loaner given to me while mine was in service, but it did have a paper dealer plate on it, but not a hard plate. It was a newish Tahoe with window tint up front as well as the factory tint in back so I went ahead and rolled the windows down. I had my license, and insurance card in my hands and I placed them on the window sill, before he walked up.
"Where'd you get this car from?"
"It was loaned to me by the dealer while my car is in service."
He snatches, yes I said, snatches my license and ins. card from me. Then after a few minutes comes back and hands them to me.
"Who told you to do that?"
"Do what?" I asked, honestly not knowing what he meant.
"To put your hands on the window with your license and card like that, before I even asked. Some of us don't like that, it is considered being a smart alec/ass (I can't remember.)"
"It was not my intention to be, officer."
And he let me go. Man I was scared, because he got hot just that quick and I didn't know what was about to happen.
I know what you are saying, but that's not the way cops are trained. Cops are trained to use the least force necessary to handle the incident. Cops may learn that in field training or when they have completed training they might be demonstrating their own fear or bias but at least in the academy cops are taught that lethal force should only be used as a last resort.
Then its unfortunate that too many of them are too dumb to absorb that training and instead, make up their own rules when they get out, or are taught new tactics by some of the Thugs that have been Cops for years and get away with being Thugs. A Cop doesn't have to be a "Thug" to be part of the problem. All he has to do is keep his mouth shut when another Cop acts like a Thug, and/or cover up for them. He then becomes as bad as the Thug, and worthless to Citizens.
Oh for the love of pete. So no one should ever be pulled over.
To listen to some of you one would believe officers do nothing but go around detaining and harassing innocent mild mannered citizens. I hope none of you ever need an officer say if your in a traffic accident, a victim of a crime, a potential victim of a crime, a loved one passes, you have a medical emergency, or any emergency, your child is lost or abducted, heaven forbid they investigate anyone suspicious, act on their training or detain anyone in order to carry out their duties. And I hope none of you ever have a bad day, say an unkind word while you are being ridiculed, disrespected, argued with or spit on, inconvenience anyone and never make a mistake on the job.
Police apologists look like the Nazis who sat in Nuremberg at the War Crime trials and defended themselves by claiming they where only following orders.
Frankly, I would have to be hard pressed to call a Cop, unless I knew them, and I do know a lot of them. Have called them for a Theft before, and it was wasted time, since nothing was recovered, but they do manage to catch speeders, or folks not wearing a seat belt. The only reason you need a cop at a traffic accident is so your insurance will cover it. Otherwise worthless. No need to call one if your a potential victim of a crime. A potential victim can be any one of us on any given day, a Cop can't do anything to a Potential Criminal, which again, can be any one of us on any given day. So what's a cop going to do? Give a potential ticket for a potential crime? And if one detains me, he better have a good reason, and not one that is made up in his head, as reasonable suspicion. Been there, and it didn't go good for the Cop. They even sent a PR Person over to smooth things out.
People should not be intimidated by Police, and made to feel that they have no rights and can not fight City Hall. You, as an individual, can do more than you think. You just keep climbing the ladder until you get some one who listens. Have done it several times with great success, and if I can do it, anyone can. Ignore these apologists, because they are wrong, and know they are, but in this cult of wrong doers, they cover for each other, and want you to think your helpless and need to kiss boots instead. .
I got pulled over once for driving a car without a tag...it was a loaner given to me while mine was in service, but it did have a paper dealer plate on it, but not a hard plate. It was a newish Tahoe with window tint up front as well as the factory tint in back so I went ahead and rolled the windows down. I had my license, and insurance card in my hands and I placed them on the window sill, before he walked up.
"Where'd you get this car from?"
"It was loaned to me by the dealer while my car is in service."
He snatches, yes I said, snatches my license and ins. card from me. Then after a few minutes comes back and hands them to me.
"Who told you to do that?"
"Do what?" I asked, honestly not knowing what he meant.
"To put your hands on the window with your license and card like that, before I even asked. Some of us don't like that, it is considered being a smart alec/ass (I can't remember.)"
"It was not my intention to be, officer."
And he let me go. Man I was scared, because he got hot just that quick and I didn't know what was about to happen.
Hmm. That's what I generally do to make sure he can see my both my hands long before he gets to the car, and they are never out of his sight.
But a few years ago, I got rear-ended by a guy who simply got out of his car and loped away, leaving the car he was driving (literally, hit and run). I call the police, waited for them to get there.
During the conversation, I happened to mention that I have a cousin who is a cop in the Air Force. They said, "'Cop?' That's drug talk!" and tossed me in the back of their car for the next half hour.
Let me mention that I was a senior NCO in the Air Force at the time, and they'd seen my military ID.
Now, having said that, let me tell you of a much earlier encounter, when I was not quite 16 years old, back in the 60s in Oklahoma.
My cousin--that one who was later a cop--and I had our driving learner's permits. My father was overseas in South Korea at the time, my mother had his car at work that Saturday, so my cousin and I decided to take her car for a spin around the neighborhood.
He was driving and clipped a parked car, ripping off the chrome side trim (cars had actual metal chrome side trim in those days). We stopped. The owner came out of his house boiling mad, then went back in and called the police. In a bit, the officer arrived, a big, white Oklahoma cop with the Smokey Bear hat and leather legs.
He read us the riot act, listing about five things that were going to send us to juvie for at least a year. Then he paused and looked at us closely. He said, "I don't know you. If you were troublemakers, I'd know you."
He took us home. By that time, my mother was back, wondering where we and her car were. The officer explained the situation and asked her if she would pay the damages. She said she would, then came back with a broomstick in her hand and blood in her eyes. The officer said, "Well, then, ma'am, I'll leave these boys in your custody."
Did I mention that both of us went on to have successful military careers?
But I don't think that would happen that way today.
Being stopped is a detention, the nature of a detention is that you are not free to leave. How about this, get pulled over and start to drive away when the cop is outside your car door talking to you
How about choice? Detention is when you are informed to remain in the presence of the cop. You are free to leave. Being stopped is not detention being told to stay where you are is. Leaving is possible. Doing so can have consequences but that is a choice you get to make. Like not speaking to the cop, you can't be forced to speak, you may remain silent. If you are afraid to exercise your rights don't blame others. Until the cop says you must remain, you can leave. That is why a cop will tell you "stay right there" or something similar. If they just walk away without telling you to remain and you stay there, that is by your choice.
Hmm. That's what I generally do to make sure he can see my both my hands long before he gets to the car, and they are never out of his sight.
But a few years ago, I got rear-ended by a guy who simply got out of his car and loped away, leaving the car he was driving (literally, hit and run). I call the police, waited for them to get there.
During the conversation, I happened to mention that I have a cousin who is a cop in the Air Force. They said, "'Cop?' That's drug talk!" and tossed me in the back of their car for the next half hour.
Let me mention that I was a senior NCO in the Air Force at the time, and they'd seen my military ID.
Now, having said that, let me tell you of a much earlier encounter, when I was not quite 16 years old, back in the 60s in Oklahoma.
My cousin--that one who was later a cop--and I had our driving learner's permits. My father was overseas in South Korea at the time, my mother had his car at work that Saturday, so my cousin and I decided to take her car for a spin around the neighborhood.
He was driving and clipped a parked car, ripping off the chrome side trim (cars had actual metal chrome side trim in those days). We stopped. The owner came out of his house boiling mad, then went back in and called the police. In a bit, the officer arrived, a big, white Oklahoma cop with the Smokey Bear hat and leather legs.
He read us the riot act, listing about five things that were going to send us to juvie for at least a year. Then he paused and looked at us closely. He said, "I don't know you. If you were troublemakers, I'd know you."
He took us home. By that time, my mother was back, wondering where we and her car were. The officer explained the situation and asked her if she would pay the damages. She said she would, then came back with a broomstick in her hand and blood in her eyes. The officer said, "Well, then, ma'am, I'll leave these boys in your custody."
Did I mention that both of us went on to have successful military careers?
But I don't think that would happen that way today.
No, today it would have been, " I am videotaping you, gonna post it on youtube, no I don't have to do anything." Not you specifically, a general situation.
If you are stopped by a cop you can be required to identify yourself, most states have laws that specify under what conditions that is appropriate and almost all of them cover identifying yourself when driving because driving is considered a privilege.
If you are driving, yes, you must provide your license which is an id, but
It may seem like a small distinction, but there's a big legal difference between refusing to give a police officer a driver's license or ID card and identifying yourself. While a driver's license or passport may be the easiest and most practical way to identify yourself to a police officer, you are not required to carry either if you are simply walking the streets.
Some 24 states have statutes requiring you to give your full name, but others do not unless you are driving. If you are a passenger in the car, you can refuse to id yourself. Police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion to believe you’re involved in illegal activity. The officer can ASK, but no, the passengers don’t have to give him identification unless there is probable cause to suspect them of something.
Driving is a priviledge requiring a license to do so. Were a police officer to ask for ID while you are the driver you can hand them your driver license and any other required documents but you are not legally obgligated to answer any questions nor remain in the car unless ordered to do so. "please remain in the car" is not an instruction, it is a request. You can walk away if the car is parked legally. You might then create a reasonable suspecion but that is a different story and has nothing to do with you right to start walking away unless told to remain. Of course the cop will then detain you but that is also a different story. All actions have consequences.
How about choice? Detention is when you are informed to remain in the presence of the cop. You are free to leave. Being stopped is not detention being told to stay where you are is. Leaving is possible. Doing so can have consequences but that is a choice you get to make. Like not speaking to the cop, you can't be forced to speak, you may remain silent. If you are afraid to exercise your rights don't blame others. Until the cop says you must remain, you can leave. That is why a cop will tell you "stay right there" or something similar. If they just walk away without telling you to remain and you stay there, that is by your choice.
You clearly don't understand how the law works, so there is little point in trying to explain it to you. An Officer does not have to tell you to stay anywhere. If your ability to freely leave or move from where you are is impaired, that is a detention. If you are stopped for a traffic violation, that is a lawful detention. If you are stopped for a traffic violation you should consider yourself detained until the Officer either writes you a ticket or tells you that you can leave. There are no magic words that he has to speak in order to require you to wait until he tells you that you can go. You have to give your name when you are stopped, if you are driving the Officer has a legal right to ask to see your driver's license. This information is readily available online feel free to verify what I am telling you.
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