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I give more leniency to a child because his brain, morals, ideas, etc are still forming. By adulthood you should know enough not to do this **** (barring mental illness).
By middle school kids know not to do that. Is it severe enough to be arrested, no. However, he knew it was wrong unless he has been socialized to prey on girls. He's an eighth grader not a fourth grader. The kid had to be dared to do it...so he knew it was wrong. It's not like kids get dared to behave and get good grades. It's usually stuff that is wrong or dangerous.
A boy kissed a girl on the cheek and hugged her hard at my kids school and was suspended for a day. That was a bit extreme, as they were 9. All the other kids were shocked that he had done that and immediately reported it. They all knew it was wrong. Even the boy admitted that right after.
By your logic, middle schools should be a free for all, full of violence and sexual assault. Then they can just get detention and a talking too. BS. I don't buy that for a minute. Kids are smarter than that. Their brains aren't fully developed, but they know you don't kiss someone at school and you don't force someone to kiss you. Will some kids break the rules, sure. There must be appropriate punishment, and dentention is not appropriate. Some thirteen year olds rape other kids and commit murder. They know it's wrong too.
Last edited by Meyerland; 09-21-2015 at 08:33 PM..
What if it was a boy forcing a kiss and grabbing aggressively another boy? Would you consider that assault?
What if an adult male in your office grabbed a woman and forced her into an aggressive open mouth kiss? Is that assault?
While I don't think he should have gotten such a severe punishment, what he did is a crime. People can not and do not go around forcibly kissing others. It has not ever been tolerated.
First, if it was boy on boy I can say with almost certainty two things would happen even if both were gay. A fight and nobody would ever speak of it lest it cause another fight. The recipient would certainly NEVER tell an adult about it.
Secondly, there's lots of things that are "crimes" and are not prosecuted nor even charged. Ever get a warning from a cop? Ever hear about people caught with a few joints in a state where it's illegal getting a pass? How about teens that are drunk? All crimes and I guess in your world all deserve to be prosecuted severely.
Third, in the last example you're comparing the actions of an adult to those of a child. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.
Must be nice to go through life living with such absolutes.
No sane person would say that what this kid did was right,acceptable or good. Those of us who remember being that age and/or have boys can remember many stupid possibly criminal things we've done due to not using the bump on top of our necks...
So you were violent and had to deal with the consequences of it so you don't want other boys to have to deal with the same consequences? I'm sorry, I know a lot of annoying, crappy, cowardly people. But I also know that you don't put your hands on them.
Easy to say as an adult, at 12-13 you really don't think about the possible consequences. I didn't and don't have a problem with what happened, I got a 3 day vacation from school, he got the message (and soaking wet).
The POINT I was making was some may think it goes away or is sealed up somehow but I'm here to tell you it doesn't...
I'm just curious whether misogynistic posts like this have changed anyone's mind about the need for strong and decisive action on this?
He's charged because it was unwanted. She was not "getting kissed", she was sexually assaulted (see very clear legal definition above) - to call it a "kiss" sets a tone of consent.
I've already stated that I have shifted far more strongly in support of juvenile criminal charges for this assault because it is clear many people who might be parents are completely out of touch with the law.
Punishment yes, criminal charges NO. Unless there's a history of such kind of behavior let the school system deal with it via suspension and other penalties.
I see this on a scale of 1-10 as about a 4/5.
First, if it was boy on boy I can say with almost certainty two things would happen even if both were gay. A fight and nobody would ever speak of it lest it cause another fight. The recipient would certainly NEVER tell an adult about it.
Secondly, there's lots of things that are "crimes" and are not prosecuted nor even charged. Ever get a warning from a cop? Ever hear about people caught with a few joints in a state where it's illegal getting a pass? How about teens that are drunk? All crimes and I guess in your world all deserve to be prosecuted severely.
Third, in the last example you're comparing the actions of an adult to those of a child. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.
Must be nice to go through life living with such absolutes.
No sane person would say that what this kid did was right,acceptable or good. Those of us who remember being that age and/or have boys can remember many stupid possibly criminal things we've done due to not using the bump on top of our necks...
The crimes you refer to getting warnings are not sexual assaults on an unsuspecting girl, they're "victimless".
Thankfully times have changed from when "boys doing stupid things" meant that young girls that were victims of criminal behaviour were expected to "suck it up". He's charged as a juvenile, which is appropriate. Have you given any thought whatsoever to the message sent to girls at the school if he gets a slap on the wrist?
To imply that the girl did something wrong by "not fighting back" (you don't know that she was the one who told) is reprehensible. She has no obligation to do anything, adults at school have an obligation to protect her and every other girl at school from this early frat boy culture of girls as "props" for boys' entertainment.
Punishment yes, criminal charges NO. Unless there's a history of such kind of behavior let the school system deal with it via suspension and other penalties.
I see this on a scale of 1-10 as about a 4/5.
Yes, we know how you view it. Thankfully other adults were far more logical here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj
So if it was YOUR son you'd be okay with criminal actions? Now answer honestly...
I would be mortified but yes. I'd get him a good lawyer.
Y'all do realise you can spread herpes that way, right? I mean, maybe its not as big of a deal, but it is not that alien of a concept that a person feels harassed by an unwanted kiss.
Yes and Aids/STD's can be spread by teens having unprotected sex..... Do you really think either kid thinks about that before jumping into bed?
Easy to say as an adult, at 12-13 you really don't think about the possible consequences. I didn't and don't have a problem with what happened, I got a 3 day vacation from school, he got the message (and soaking wet).
The POINT I was making was some may think it goes away or is sealed up somehow but I'm here to tell you it doesn't...
It might also was a special case based on what happened. This story is LIKELY to be expunged and gone baring the state sealing juvenile records upon no longer being a minor. The press reporting it is a bit different and still opens up the same can of worms.
First, if it was boy on boy I can say with almost certainty two things would happen even if both were gay. A fight and nobody would ever speak of it lest it cause another fight. The recipient would certainly NEVER tell an adult about it.
Secondly, there's lots of things that are "crimes" and are not prosecuted nor even charged. Ever get a warning from a cop? Ever hear about people caught with a few joints in a state where it's illegal getting a pass? How about teens that are drunk? All crimes and I guess in your world all deserve to be prosecuted severely.
Third, in the last example you're comparing the actions of an adult to those of a child. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.
Must be nice to go through life living with such absolutes.
No sane person would say that what this kid did was right,acceptable or good. Those of us who remember being that age and/or have boys can remember many stupid possibly criminal things we've done due to not using the bump on top of our necks...
I have a son (now an adult ). I can agree they can do some stupid things. That said, I can't think of any of the MS boys I knew that would grab and hold a girl by her clothing, then force his tongue down her mouth, to the accompanying taunts of his friends. It's disturbing to say the least. Frankly, if this is indicative of the road this particular group of boys is headed down, the parents ought to be grateful it's being seriously dealt with BEFORE it becomes an even more egregious assault. This is not normal "just being a boy" behavior. At all.
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Now answer honestly...