Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So its okay because the mysterious, faceless Government is footing the bill?
The issue the posters were focusing on that I replied too were saying people are going to die without this drug. I posted everyone in this country is required by law to have health insurance. And individuals have a personal responsibility in getting HIV in the 1st place and not put 100% of the blame on a drug company if they live or not because the pill is so expensive and one chooses not to carry health insurance that is required by law now and pay penalties instead. As for the government footing the bill, that's out of your/my control. You are of course welcome to start/create a pharm company and put up the capital, take all the risks, etc. and develop a competitive drug if it bothers you that much...... and if you get a successful drug, charge next to nothing for it or make it available for free. Make the change you want to see in the world kind of thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe
By your own definition he's not operating in a free market. He's operating in a controlled market. Which is what I hinted at before.
In a free market there would be competition to drive the price down. He's not operating in a free market.
But he is indeed operating in a free market. What's stopping any company to make a generic version of this drug?(my understanding based on someone's post is this drug has been around for a generic to be created of it but I never researched to verify this). If a generic can't be made, some company is more than welcome to make a similiar new/better drug and compete like is done with many drugs these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
Obviously you live pampered life without exposure to the real world of "insurance" available to most of the mere mortals in USA.
Obviously, a greedy jerk capitalizes on the fact that government licensing process would take a few years, so he can make an offer sick people cannot refuse. And such a rugged individual like yourself think it is OK for the public to subsidize quasi monopoly the very same public granted to the greedy jerk. So basically you advocate the public transfering $100,000,000 in the greedy jerk' wallet. Let me guess, you beatch at welfare (for the poor) too? It is so typical of "conservative".
Guess what? I takes time to lay new pipe and electric lines, in between, you are a fair game for utility companies. If the greedy jerk and hospitals allowed to 700 fold prices, why not utility companies or anybody else who holds de facto monopoly on the things you neef to survive?
As for a pampered life, that's not the case. Like many people, we sacrificed and worked very hard for the things we have in life.
My entire point of my posts is I live in reality and accept what can't be controlled. I'd sure love for no war to exist in the world. No one suffers. To have everything free/next to free and no one has to pay for anything. Companies produce things for next to nothing for the betterment and profit isn't the goal. You know, utopia! But again, I live in this thing called reality.
As for the public "transferring" $ to this company(I assume you mean from private insurance companies that cover individuals for health care), the insurance companies realize they need to operate in the law of a free market that sets prices. I also think you don't understand that insurance companies don't pay the full retail "Asking" price for drugs and procedures that I mentioned in a previous post. Often far less.
btw, utilities are a non-sequitur comparison. They are a regulated industry as are most(all?) utilities in this country. There are oversight boards to approve/disapprove price hikes in many(all?) states. If you are all for regulating drug companies, run for office and run on that platform. Or start a drug company, put up your own money/get investors, and make drugs for low cost or for free. Or even simpler, start a "go fund me", collect money, and use that money to pay for peoples drugs. As I suggested above, be the change you want to see in the world. Just wishing for things to change or ordering others to do things in a certain way that are being done in a legal manner accomplishes nothing.
The issue the posters were focusing on that I replied too were saying people are going to die without this drug. I posted everyone in this country is required by law to have health insurance. And individuals have a personal responsibility in getting HIV in the 1st place and not put 100% of the blame on a drug company if they live or not because the pill is so expensive and one chooses not to carry health insurance that is required by law now and pay penalties instead. As for the government footing the bill, that's out of your/my control. You are of course welcome to start/create a pharm company and put up the capital, take all the risks, etc. and develop a competitive drug if it bothers you that much...... and if you get a successful drug, charge next to nothing for it or make it available for free. Make the change you want to see in the world kind of thing.
But he is indeed operating in a free market. What's stopping any company to make a generic version of this drug?(my understanding based on someone's post is this drug has been around for a generic to be created of it but I never researched to verify this). If a generic can't be made, some company is more than welcome to make a similiar new/better drug and compete like is done with many drugs these days.
As for a pampered life, that's not the case. Like many people, we sacrificed and worked very hard for the things we have in life.
My entire point of my posts is I live in reality and accept what can't be controlled. I'd sure love for no war to exist in the world. No one suffers. To have everything free/next to free and no one has to pay for anything. Companies produce things for next to nothing for the betterment and profit isn't the goal. You know, utopia! But again, I live in this thing called reality.
As for the public "transferring" $ to this company(I assume you mean from private insurance companies that cover individuals for health care), the insurance companies realize they need to operate in the law of a free market that sets prices. I also think you don't understand that insurance companies don't pay the full retail "Asking" price for drugs and procedures that I mentioned in a previous post. Often far less.
btw, utilities are a non-sequitur comparison. They are a regulated industry as are most(all?) utilities in this country. There are oversight boards to approve/disapprove price hikes in many(all?) states. If you are all for regulating drug companies, run for office and run on that platform. Or start a drug company, put up your own money/get investors, and make drugs for low cost or for free. Or even simpler, start a "go fund me", collect money, and use that money to pay for peoples drugs. As I suggested above, be the change you want to see in the world. Just wishing for things to change or ordering others to do things in a certain way that are being done in a legal manner accomplishes nothing.
He owns the patent so nobody else can make the drug. I'm not sure how much more time is left on the patent.
He has a monopoly.
If he would've had to compete, there's no way he would've been able to charge that much. A competitor would've simply charged less and taken ALL of his business.
Edit: To your 1st paragraph. Just because you have insurance doesn't mean your insurance is going to cover 100% of your bills. When I worked in insurance over half of all bankruptcies were due to unpaid medical bills.
He owns the patent so nobody else can make the drug. I'm not sure how much more time is left on the patent.
He has a monopoly.
If he would've had to compete, there's no way he would've been able to charge that much. A competitor would've simply charged less and taken ALL of his business.
Edit: To your 1st paragraph. Just because you have insurance doesn't mean your insurance is going to cover 100% of your bills. When I worked in insurance over half of all bankruptcies were due to unpaid medical bills.
It's a bigger issue than you think.
Exactly, it may or may not be covered based on the tier of your Exchange plan or private plan bought away from the exchange. Some are an issue of premiums.
He owns the patent so nobody else can make the drug. I'm not sure how much more time is left on the patent.
He has a monopoly.
If he would've had to compete, there's no way he would've been able to charge that much. A competitor would've simply charged less and taken ALL of his business.
Edit: To your 1st paragraph. Just because you have insurance doesn't mean your insurance is going to cover 100% of your bills. When I worked in insurance over half of all bankruptcies were due to unpaid medical bills.
It's a bigger issue than you think.
You don't appear to understand the world of drugs or how patents/business work. People who make statin drug "A" have a patent because it has a unique chem makeup they developed and have a right to it. But that doesn't prevent someone else from making another statin drug with a different chem makeup that does the same underlying end result....lowers cholesterol. There are many different cholesterol drugs out there. High blood pressure drugs. Cancer drugs. Etc Etc.
As for bankruptcies and coverage, people who get an obamacare policy, even the highest deductible "catastrophic" policy should greatly reduce such occurrences. People are also free to choose a low deductible/more coverage policy which should make such occurrences a non-issue. People have choices. And have their own priorities in life in making such choices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
Exactly, it may or may not be covered based on the tier of your Exchange plan or private plan bought away from the exchange. Some are an issue of premiums.
Welcome to reality. This is true of any drug(s), no matter the cost.
You don't appear to understand the world of drugs or how patents/business work. People who make statin drug "A" have a patent because it has a unique chem makeup they developed and have a right to it. But that doesn't prevent someone else from making another statin drug with a different chem makeup that does the same underlying end result....lowers cholesterol. There are many different cholesterol drugs out there. High blood pressure drugs. Cancer drugs. Etc Etc.
As for bankruptcies and coverage, people who get an obamacare policy, even the highest deductible "catastrophic" policy should greatly reduce such occurrences. People are also free to choose a low deductible/more coverage policy which should make such occurrences a non-issue. People have choices. And have their own priorities in life in making such choices.
Welcome to reality. This is true of any drug(s), no matter the cost.
Yes but especially high cost cancer and HIV retro-virals. Guess what, this an HIV retro-viral so it is already not really covered and with the new price, it sure as Hell won't be.
You don't appear to understand the world of drugs or how patents/business work. People who make statin drug "A" have a patent because it has a unique chem makeup they developed and have a right to it. But that doesn't prevent someone else from making another statin drug with a different chem makeup that does the same underlying end result....lowers cholesterol. There are many different cholesterol drugs out there. High blood pressure drugs. Cancer drugs. Etc Etc.
I understand business and patents. I just looked up the Diaprim situation and its actually not under patent anymore. Patents last 20 years. While it was under patent, competitors wouldn't be able to create the drug. The intent is to reward the innovator for making a breakthrough. Which I agree with.
In this case, the patent has actually expired, but the barriers to entry and market size are what's keeping the competition out and allowing him to control the market. The interrim is what he's taking advantage of if no other competitors come to market.
All my points and sentiments still stand.
As for bankruptcies and coverage, people who get an obamacare policy, even the highest deductible "catastrophic" policy should greatly reduce such occurrences. People are also free to choose a low deductible/more coverage policy which should make such occurrences a non-issue. People have choices. And have their own priorities in life in making such choices.
Welcome to reality. This is true of any drug(s), no matter the cost.
I've worked in insurance and have talked to people going through things with the new coverage. Not everything is covered. People are still struggling to pay their bills.
I'd say half, or over half of Americans just work to pay bills.
Yes but especially high cost cancer and HIV retro-virals. Guess what, this an HIV retro-viral so it is already not really covered and with the new price, it sure as Hell won't be.
Makes prevention of HIV and AIDS all the more important then ever than. While a few don't have a choice in getting it(newly born babies, a bad transfusion which should be rare these days as blood is now screened for it), HIV and AIDS is largely preventable. No expensive pills required. Actually 100% preventable say many experts:
So those who don't want to pay the high price for this drug have a choice after all. For those who choose to partake in certain actives, they made that choice all on their own to take on such risk.
Many "diseases" are largely preventable for that matter that most people are clueless on including cancer. From the library of medicine:
Same with heart "disease", type II diabetes, etc. Don't want to pay the price of high cost drugs? One has a choice to greatly reduce/lower the risk to next to nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe
I've already disproved the free market concept.
You did not. The choice of another company to not want to step in to create their own patented formula of a drug to compete against a similiar drug doesn't count. As I stated previously, there are many statin drugs that compete with each other....cancer drugs.....high blood pressure drugs....etc etc. Different unique formulations. Competition is free to enter at any time to create their own formulation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe
I've worked in insurance and have talked to people going through things with the new coverage. Not everything is covered. People are still struggling to pay their bills.
I'd say half, or over half of Americans just work to pay bills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe
I've worked in insurance and have talked to people going through things with the new coverage. Not everything is covered. People are still struggling to pay their bills.
I'd say half, or over half of Americans just work to pay bills.
Yes, we've covered/both agree on this.....not everything is covered under health insurance. This has always been the case. Nothing is 100% in life on just about any level except death. Shocking, I know.
I'd put your stat of Americans just paying their bills much higher than half because most people don't live within their means no matter how much/little money they make. If a cell phone and cable tv is to be considered by many to be "necessities" today, we shouldn't be surprised. I've worked/hang around people who make far more than I've ever made and countless such people tell me they can't make ends meet. It's laughable really. And I've known very few who make a modest income and do just fine because they live within their means and manage their spending and set priorities. Personal choice in the end yet many blame everything on something else other than the person staring back at them in the mirror
We are just going around in a big loop here. You and many hear take a more victim approach in life. I approach life in a different way as I was brought up to believe(crazy as this sounds).....ready?....I'm responsible largely for my own lot in life based on my own decisions. And I'm not arrogant/ignorant enough to want to try to change things I know I can't change that are out of my control. Crazy way to think I know. For those who have a low/lower income, there are safety nets galore available today that many certainly take advantage of, including expanded medicaid under obamacare where one will get a free ride health insurance policy for themselves/their family if they are that bad off/make a low income.
For those in lower end jobs like my wife and I used to work years ago, there's a concept called bettering one self, getting educated in a field that is in demand, and working in such a responsible direction to make more money instead of whining about "I can't pay my bills.....poor, poor me!". And most importantly, living within one's means.
So with that.......let the whine fest continue about how unfair the world is, how people are just victims of big bad companies, personal responsibility doesn't count, and let's have more fun!
He's a smug nasty brat. Compare him to Jonas Salk who declined 7 million for the rights to his polio vaccine.
He didn't even invent it.
Big business should be removed from life or death situations. Period.
He didn't invent it but he paid 55 million for it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
