George Zimmerman retweets photo of Travon's dead body

[eddie gein]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

In regards to the night in question, I can't say Zimmerman did anything wrong.

Let's consider what we know and what happened:
1. The neighborhood Zimmerman lived in had a rash of crime.
2. Police had been called previous times in regards to break-ins, vandalism and suspicious people.
3. Zimmerman volunteered for neighborhood watch.
4. Zimmerman observed Martin walking through the gated neighborhood on a rainy night and felt he was suspicious.
5. Zimmerman calls 911.
6. Zimmerman follows Martin during the 911 call while waiting for police.
7. A physical altercation broke out between Zimmerman and Martin.
8. While Martin was on top of Zimmerman, Zimmerman fired a single shot killing Martin.

Here is why I say we don't know that Zimmerman did anything wrong.

If my neighborhood had a problem with a crime spree, I may very well volunteer to for neighborhood watch.

If I saw someone walking around on a rainy night that I didn't recognize and felt they were acting suspicious, I would call the cops.

Once I called the cops, I'd follow to see where the person went while waiting for the police.

If (and I say IF because we don't know what happened) the person attacked me and was on top of me causing me to fear for my life, I would very likely pull my gun and use it to stop the threat.

I find that scenario very reasonable.

The problem is that we don't know for a fact who attacked who, and I'm not going to say he did anything wrong when there is no proof he did anything wrong.

I also won't say he should have been convicted or call him a murderer when there is no proof of it.

My personal belief, based on only my opinion, is that Trayvon was pissed off Zimmerman was following him and decided to open a can and ended up with a bullet in his chest.

However, since that is only my opinion, I can't say Zimmerman was innocent, because I don't know who started the physical fight.

Finally, as I've said in this post and many other posts, I think Zimmerman is a trashy moron who needs fade away. I don't like him and I wouldn't want to live by him. However, he shouldn't go to prison just because myself, or any other person, doesn't like him.

As one who DOES think Zimmerman "did something wrong" I appreciate this reasoned response compared to the regular Zimmerman supporter.

However, we know that Zimmerman was asked not to follow Martin and did so anyway.

And more importantly. Zimmerman lied about what actually occurred. We know this because Zimmerman claimed he was "walking back to the truck" when Martin approached him and ultimately attacked him. If so, why was Martin's body found some 43 feet away from where Zimmerman said the attack took place? If Zimmerman were telling the truth, then Martin's body would have been found on the sidewalk that led back to Zimmerman's truck. It wasn't.

I think lying to law enforcement during a criminal investigation is "doing something wrong."

[Faith2187]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

In regards to the night in question, I can't say Zimmerman did anything wrong.

Let's consider what we know and what happened:
1. The neighborhood Zimmerman lived in had a rash of crime.
2. Police had been called previous times in regards to break-ins, vandalism and suspicious people.
3. Zimmerman volunteered for neighborhood watch.
4. Zimmerman observed Martin walking through the gated neighborhood on a rainy night and felt he was suspicious.
5. Zimmerman calls 911.
6. Zimmerman follows Martin during the 911 call while waiting for police.
7. A physical altercation broke out between Zimmerman and Martin.
8. While Martin was on top of Zimmerman, Zimmerman fired a single shot killing Martin.

Here is why I say we don't know that Zimmerman did anything wrong.

If my neighborhood had a problem with a crime spree, I may very well volunteer to for neighborhood watch.

If I saw someone walking around on a rainy night that I didn't recognize and felt they were acting suspicious, I would call the cops.

Once I called the cops, I'd follow to see where the person went while waiting for the police.

If (and I say IF because we don't know what happened) the person attacked me and was on top of me causing me to fear for my life, I would very likely pull my gun and use it to stop the threat.

I find that scenario very reasonable.

The problem is that we don't know for a fact who attacked who, and I'm not going to say he did anything wrong when there is no proof he did anything wrong.

I also won't say he should have been convicted or call him a murderer when there is no proof of it.

My personal belief, based on only my opinion, is that Trayvon was pissed off Zimmerman was following him and decided to open a can and ended up with a bullet in his chest.

However, since that is only my opinion, I can't say Zimmerman was innocent, because I don't know who started the physical fight.

Finally, as I've said in this post and many other posts, I think Zimmerman is a trashy moron who needs fade away. I don't like him and I wouldn't want to live by him. However, he shouldn't go to prison just because myself, or any other person, doesn't like him.

I can see the scenario you mentioned. I guess I was raised to not follow a stranger that I think might be breaking in and causing vandalism in home. It's dangerous to follow someone without real police-or other back up--and neighborhood watch or not my safety and my life is more important and after I called 911 and was told to not follow, I wouldn't have. Then again if I sense a dangerous situation I haul a$$, following this boy despite what he was told, created a situation that could have been prevented. Yes if the perp was in fact trayvon Martin then listening to the operator would have potentially meant losing trayvon and not catching the person committing the crime, but he still could have given information about how he looked to the police when they arrived and let them investigate further.
George was lucky that this kid was unarmed--if he would have tried that with the wrong person then he would have lost his life and all for neighborhood watch?
Here's what I believe: George has demonstrated that he likes attention and has a temper. He most likely decided to follow trayvon because he wanted to be a hero in his neighborhood and be that guy that caught the boy doing bad stuff in his neighborhood. He ignored the operator because he didn't want to miss the opportunity to catch who he assumed to be behind the problems in his neighborhood and miss out on being hailed the neighborhood watchman that stopped the problems. Trayvon realized he was being followed by a strange man that did not wear a police uniform and should not have been following him to begin with. And he got angry. At that point a fight ensued, George knew he had a gun and used it. Self defense or not-I don't know but I do know that trayvon was unarmed, and beyond an a$$ kicking I do wonder how much of this was because he really felt threatened that Trayvon would beat him to a pulp killing him, or if he was angry that trayvon had the nerve to fight him instead of bowing down to him and decided during the fight that he would use his gun because he was angry. None of us really know his true motives, or what really happened. We know that he was found not guilty.

Now reversing the roles for a second if someone was following me, and they weren't an officer and I felt threatened by their presence I'm not sure how I would react but I'm not sure if I would be cooperative to a neighborhood watch person that suspects me of something that I didn't do and that was following me around... Maybe trayvon should have took off running but then he would have been deemed guilty of the neighborhood vandalism. Maybe he could have stood there and talked to George to explain to him that he had nothing to do with what happened in the neighborhood but if he felt threatened then having a conversation probably wasn't something that dawned on him. Maybe he could have just let George continue to follow him, despite the fact that he didn't feel right being followed by George because he didn't do anything wrong. He was like other teenage boys that when feeling threatened by a stranger either high tail it or fight but he wasn't aware that George was armed--unfortunately it resulted in his life.

Really there's a lot that went wrong with the actions of both Trayvon and George, but Trayvon is dead and George after being found not guilty continues to put himself in situations that demonstrate that he is not a good person. It's sad when you look at it that way-the person that is still alive engages in negative behavior after negative behavior. What could have at least been an attempt for George to become a person that makes better decisions has resulted in him continuing to demonstrate why he is a huge waste.

Oh well.

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by ATG5

Well then. Since my roommate and I are getting a townhouse in a more suburban, "nicer" area and we'll be new, I (not him, since he's not black) better not walk my dog after the sun goes down, less I be suspicious to a neighborhood watchmen and end up with a bullet in my chest.

Edit: Once again, I always appreciate your fair and balanced posts.

Don't forget about the physical altercation. Without that, I don't think anybody gets shot.

Originally Posted by eddie gein

As one who DOES think Zimmerman "did something wrong" I appreciate this reasoned response compared to the regular Zimmerman supporter.

However, we know that Zimmerman was asked not to follow Martin and did so anyway.

And more importantly. Zimmerman lied about what actually occurred. We know this because Zimmerman claimed he was "walking back to the truck" when Martin approached him and ultimately attacked him. If so, why was Martin's body found some 43 feet away from where Zimmerman said the attack took place? If Zimmerman were telling the truth, then Martin's body would have been found on the sidewalk that led back to Zimmerman's truck. It wasn't.

I think lying to law enforcement during a criminal investigation is "doing something wrong."

I'll have to double check, but I believe they 911 operator said, "We don't need you to do that" when Zimmerman said he was following. This is, of course, a good thing to say so that you aren't encouraging it and also reducing your own liability.

As far as where the fight concluded, I've seen a few fights myself that involved a lot of movement and running during an attack. I'm sure I could find some YouTube fights where quick chases occurred during the fight.

Any chance you have a link to a transcript of what Zimmerman said in regards to this? I'd like to read it and get a better understanding of what the said. If you don't, no big deal, but I'm not going to go searching for it and I'm not going to debate about this without seeing exactly what was said.

[Oldhag1]

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