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On one hand, I'm all for supporting your petinion (or any similar one).
On another, why do you need a government permission to exercise your natural right? Does anyone run x-ray scans when you enter a campus? Do they search your bags? Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
There is no solution. Unless there's someone in the room/area with another gun this person can't be neutralized. Politicians will try to sell more laws/restrictions to the herd but it does little to nothing in my view. In reality this won't work because hook or crook people will get what they need to cause harm to others via the black market. Of course don't make it easier but I always use the example of strict laws/prison sentences on illegal drugs and how they are banned nationwide. How's that working for us? Or prohibition. Banning anything at a national level that has a large demand will be met via underground supply. This is reality.
No there is no solution you are right. But there's a difference between 1 life and 2, you and I, my brother or your sister. If there was an opportunity to REDUCE the amount of casualties related to mass shootings at school, would you be for it? Tell your answer to the victim's family who was the last one to be shot and killed.
You can walk into school with a pencil or a fork and kill anyone that comes into contact with you. But can you use a pencil or a fork against an armed killer? And if a pencil or fork were used instead of multiple guns, what would you have blamed? The person or the pencil/fork?
Guns, forks, knives, pencils, cigarette's- All these do is provide the opportunity either to be respectful and do good, or foolish and do bad. Ideas- pull the trigger, cause people to be obese, stab, and give cancer.
If you can't prevent these things, you HAVE to do something that proactively makes the outcome better than it would have been if you did nothing at all.
Lots of maybe's... wishes... and dreams in these posts .. Allow me to remind you.. If Wishing was horses every beggar would ride..
I taught Scuba... Its really a Very simple and a very safe sport, but you should see all the panic situations I have seen, with people who spent hours practicing for these event just days even hours before when and if one really happens.. Rambo was a movie! Just because a guy or a gal was a Vet doesn't mean they will react well under duress. Only about 15% or our Military Vets ever see combat. You Don't Maintain cutting edge of Anything...for years when your not active. BTW shooting paper Zombie targets doesn't keep you active..
Quote:
Originally Posted by castaway365
Thank you. This is what stood out to me. Everyone wants a fighting chance. But when the odds are against you it is difficult. If the shooter was persecuting Christians, this might indicate there was at least a few seconds between questioning and getting an answer that his attention may have been distracted enough to where someone who was armed (possibly another student such as the vet who was shot), to stop the shooter in his tracks before more casualties.
On one hand, I'm all for supporting your petinion (or any similar one).
On another, why do you need a government permission to exercise your natural right? Does anyone run x-ray scans when you enter a campus? Do they search your bags? Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
I respect that and I agree with my God given rights. But unfortunately I have to abide by the laws that man has created at certain institutions, even though it's not in my best interest or the interest of others. People fear guns. They fear the things that make them worry or that they are afraid of. Instead of wanting to educate themselves and be open minded, they shun it and alienate such things creating stereotypes associated with negative images.
How many more shootings have to happen before nothing is done?? What is being done? I don't see any other helpful suggestions.
Compare the mass shootings that were gun free zones with the shootings where guns on the property are illegal. The difference between school and everywhere else? Most schools are gun free zones and everyone knows that; which is what makes them a target for violence when someone wants to go down and take others with them.
C-O-N-C-E-A-L-E-D = Kept secret, hidden.
These shooters aren't exactly showing up armed to the teeth with CONCEALED weapons. They are making it clear that they are there to end lives. I don't think you have any idea whatsoever how many people you walk by everyday that carry a concealed weapon.
Please don't talk down to me. Several of my relatives have concealed carry permits, I'm well aware of how it works.
Again, my question was, what is to prevent a mentally disturbed person taking the time to get a CC permit, take his concealed weapon *anywhere* and start randomly shooting people?
And I'll add a second question: Let's say there is a shooting situation on a campus, in a movie theater, on the street. You, as someone with a CC permit and a gun, runs to the scene and see two armed men aiming guns at each other among multiple victims. How are you, the police, anyone else, going to determine who was the shooter and who is the "good guy with a gun" before opening fire?
Please don't talk down to me. Several of my relatives have concealed carry permits, I'm well aware of how it works.
Again, my question was, what is to prevent a mentally disturbed person taking the time to get a CC permit, take his concealed weapon *anywhere* and start randomly shooting people?
And I'll add a second question: Let's say there is a shooting situation on a campus, in a movie theater, on the street. You, as someone with a CC permit and a gun, runs to the scene and see two armed men aiming guns at each other among multiple victims. How are you, the police, anyone else, going to determine who was the shooter and who is the "good guy with a gun" before opening fire?
My apologies MoonBeam I may have been a bit out of line with that.
I will try to answer these question to the best of my ability.
There is nothing preventing anyone, anywhere, at any time from opening fire on innocent people. It's unpreventable.
In a situation such as the one you describe, it's extremely difficult given that the two gun carriers looked the same (assuming they looked that same and each only had one gun in possession).
Even in any situation it's difficult to tell. The only option for the police to do is make everyone get down on the ground, no questions asked (which is 1 reason I would say a lot of innocent people get shot by the police, but that's a different subject). Just like the police, you have to use instinct and hope for the best. I know it sounds crazy but that's how it is, even for the police.
I dread the day that I am put in the position to end anyone's life on U.S. soil. But if that day ever comes, I and any other concealed weapon carrier could only hope for the best, maybe even get the shooter to drop without having to fire a single shot.
I respect that and I agree with my God given rights. But unfortunately I have to abide by the laws that man has created at certain institutions, even though it's not in my best interest or the interest of others. People fear guns. They fear the things that make them worry or that they are afraid of. Instead of wanting to educate themselves and be open minded, they shun it and alienate such things creating stereotypes associated with negative images.
How many more shootings have to happen before nothing is done?? What is being done? I don't see any other helpful suggestions.
It's your choice. I'd say if you believe a law is not right, it's a duty to ignore it.
Here's a little illustration to it - Nazis (lawfully elected at the time) made a law to turn in any jews, it was legal and expected of every law-abiding citizen (with great and awful consequences to follow to any who would not cooperate). I don't ask what you would do, nor say what I'd do in such circumstances, but just who was right morally? Those who were good law-abiding citizens turning in Jews, or those who broke the law they thought was inhumane?
It's your choice. I'd say if you believe a law is not right, it's a duty to ignore it.
Here's a little illustration to it - Nazis (lawfully elected at the time) made a law to turn in any jews, it was legal and expected of every law-abiding citizen (with great and awful consequences to follow to any who would not cooperate). I don't ask what you would do, nor say what I'd do in such circumstances, but just who was right morally? Those who were good law-abiding citizens turning in Jews, or those who broke the law they thought was inhumane?
You make a good point and good example. Such regimes throughout history also required registration and look what their common goals were. I feel like that is a rock and a hard place answer. Do I risk getting expelled and/or arrested in order to feel safe and potentially protect those around me in a misfortune event (God forbid). Or do I follow a law that takes away my ability to fight for survival in a place that is one massive sitting duck for mentally ill people wanting to hurt others.
No there is no solution you are right. But there's a difference between 1 life and 2, you and I, my brother or your sister. If there was an opportunity to REDUCE the amount of casualties related to mass shootings at school, would you be for it? Tell your answer to the victim's family who was the last one to be shot and killed.
You can walk into school with a pencil or a fork and kill anyone that comes into contact with you. But can you use a pencil or a fork against an armed killer? And if a pencil or fork were used instead of multiple guns, what would you have blamed? The person or the pencil/fork?
Guns, forks, knives, pencils, cigarette's- All these do is provide the opportunity either to be respectful and do good, or foolish and do bad. Ideas- pull the trigger, cause people to be obese, stab, and give cancer.
If you can't prevent these things, you HAVE to do something that proactively makes the outcome better than it would have been if you did nothing at all.
But I honestly can't think of what can be done proactively to make the outcome better other than for common sense things like having a trained armed security guard on campus as in the OR tragedy. And even if an armed concealed gun carrier is in the area, some of these weapons can spray an awful lot of ammo before someone carrying reacts but there is a chance in this case a concealed carrying citizen could take a nut out. Perhaps metal detectors at every public spot in this country. But even then, when you have a huge campus, mall, supermarket, department store, etc wherever, a guard can't be everywhere or doesn't even exist. Nor will there necessarily be any people carrying a concealed gun or if they do would be able to use it without panicking/being a good shot. Or what about an open outdoor sidewalk where some nut drives by in a car and sprays gun fire everywhere? That's why I say there's nothing that can be done to prevent potentially large number of deaths with a gun or who knows with what else. Ban guns nationwide and make extremely harsh sentences? As i mentioned earlier the black market will always make it easy for someone to get what they want. And harsh sentences/long jail term has done nothing to prevent people from taking risk to sell/use all sorts of illegal drugs.
What would you do proactively to reduce a nut from spraying bullets on people in busy outdoor sidewalks, tourist areas, city sidewalks, etc.?
Heck, just thought of this.....now we have drones. What kind of security will prevent someone from arming one and shooting inside windows of a building from a distance or on busy outdoor areas where there are lots of people? There are probably tons of other things I haven't even thought of that some nut has thought of to make it all happen.
I really beleive that the media needs to stop sensationalizing these murders. These mass killings are not entertainment. The correct way to cover these tragedies is to mention it for one minute only and then go on to the next news story. The one minute lets people know what happened. Why do we need to know more? That Oregon sheriff was right in not mentioning the shooter's name. Good for him for making us all t h i n k for a second about why he didn't want to name the person. Obviosuly, these shooters are deranged. Why give them so much tv coverage? That may incite a copycat who wants his/her two weeks of fame. Is that about how long these stories stay in the news?
On a different vein, I see coming down the road mental health checks for all once that health law is in full effect. No one will be able to escape it then. It will be for the 'safety' of everyone.
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Or prohibition. Banning anything at a national level that has a large demand will be met via underground supply. This is reality.
