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Of course you can't prevent it from happening. But does it mean we should not fall asleep on airplanes anymore? Stay awake the 13 hour flight? Don't be a target by staying awake for 13 hours? Come on.
Once again, there is an obvious difference between normal sleep and drug-induced unconsciousness.
If you think you can prevent a person from molesting an unconscious person by telling them not to I have a.bridge to sell you.
An conscious person can react to something like this and unconscious ones cannot. This makes unconscious parties much more susceptible targets. Dont be a target
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmonburgher
Once again, there is an obvious difference between normal sleep and drug-induced unconsciousness.
Do you not recognize this obvious difference?
I'm talking about both being asleep and being unconscious by taking drugs. People have been molested, both on and off planes, in both states. Some even say you are unconscious when you are asleep. I should amend it to "not being awake."
People who are sick enough to molest somebody in any state will do so until the person resists or wakes up. If they can overpower the awake person, all the better. If they can threaten them with a weapon or otherwise, all the better.
Neither of these stories mentioned any drug use by the victim at all, while this latest one from last week did.
To address your other post to me, when you asked if it was more likely someone would not touch someone who is simply sleeping rather than unconscious by drugs, I don't know. You tell me.
One from August 2014 on a flight. "A Catholic priest who molested a woman on a flight from Philadelphia to LAX has been sentenced to go to jail. Prosecutors say the priest interpreted the woman he groped as "coy" even though she was actually asleep...De Jesumaria was not seated next to the victim at first, but eventually asked a flight attendant if he could switch seats in order to sit next to his 'wife.' De Jesumaria moved to sit in a middle seat between a man, who was seated next to the window, and the victim, whom De Jesumaria had claimed was his wife. The victim said she fell asleep during the flight, but woke up when De Jesumaria touched her high on her left leg, close to her crotch area. She said De Jesumaria then put his arm around her and grabbed her breast. She said he held her tightly for a while, but eventually loosened his grip and she got up. She went to the bathroom, then used a call button to get a flight attendant's attention and reported De Jesumaria's behavior."Creepy Priest Going To Jail For Groping A Sleeping Woman On A Plane: LAist
In this story the victim is a 12 year old girl who was molested while asleep on a plane in November 2014. "When the cabin lights were dimmed, she fell asleep but soon woke up to find A N was touching her thigh. "I pushed his hand away and told him not to repeat it, then fell asleep again," said the girl. She said she then awoke again to find him touching her chest and private parts. "He even tried to unbutton my trousers but couldn't. I felt so scared as I was alone on the plane," she said. "I didn’t know what to do, especially as he kept repeating what he did all the way to Dubai," she said, adding that he only stopped when the cabin lights were turned on. After this, he tried to start a conversation with her. When the flight landed at Dubai International Airport, the defendant stalked her. She spotted a police officer and told him what happened."Salesman molested sleeping girl, 12, on flight into Dubai, court hears | The National
Another flight molestation from June 2012. "Criminal charges were filed on Wednesday against a 32-year-old man accused of molesting a 19-year-old woman while she was asleep on an international Delta Air Lines flight from Detroit to Amsterdam. Janarol Dickens is accused of putting his hand down her underwear while placing her hand on his crotch while she slept on the flight on June 10, 2012... Dickens allegedly asked the woman whether she wanted to watch a movie with him and she declined and fell asleep.
When she awoke, Dickens allegedly had his hand down her pants, underneath her underwear and was 'rubbing' her private parts according to the Detroit Free Press." Man charged with molesting sleeping 19-year-old passenger on international flight | Daily Mail Online
Another from August 2014. "Drissi, 45, married and the father of two young children, told Judge Leo Glasser that he had downed two small bottles of white wine before sexually abusing the young woman as she slept in the seat beside him on a Royal Air Maroc flight in August." ... Drissi pleaded guilty to putting his hand under the woman's blouse and attempting to place his hands in the front of her pants without her consent.http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.2029296
One from March 2015. "Never in my wildest dreams did I think I shouldn't be going to sleep, or that I wasn't safe going to sleep." The woman takes biweekly flights between her home in Saint John and work in the oil patch, with a stop in Toronto to change planes. Her routine includes taking a nap on the early-morning flight from Saint John to Toronto. Last month, she alleges, she awoke to a stranger's hand groping near her crotch. "I basically look over, and the guy has his mouth open and looks shocked," she says."https://ca.news.yahoo.com/air-canada...151637795.html
In my experience reading these stories, and recalling them, "asleep" is much more common than "drugged herself." All these are from the last 3 years, too, and aren't the only ones.
I'm talking about both being asleep and being unconscious by taking drugs. People have been molested, both on and off planes, in both states. Some even say you are unconscious when you are asleep. I should amend it to "not being awake."
Look, I know that one can be violated even when wide awake. So, let's understand that we are talking about relative opportunity/risk.
If you do not believe that one places one's self at relatively greater risk when in a drug-induced state of unconsciousness, then, I'm not sure we can continue this discussion with any hope of constructive outcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415
People who are sick enough to molest somebody in any state will do so until the person resists or wakes up. If they can overpower the awake person, all the better. If they can threaten them with a weapon or otherwise, all the better.
Nobody is denying this possibility. I'm only atating that the risk of molestation is greater if one is in a drug-induced state of unconsciousness.
Neither of these stories mentioned any drug use by the victim at all, while this latest one from last week did.
Not saying that it doesn't happen. I have already stated that I am addressing the relative risks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415
To address your other post to me, when you asked if it was more likely someone would not touch someone who is simply sleeping rather than unconscious by drugs, I don't know. You tell me.
Look, I know that one can be violated even when wide awake. So, let's understand that we are talking about relative opportunity/risk.
If you do not believe that one places one's self at relatively greater risk when in a drug-induced state of unconsciousness, then, I'm not sure we can continue this discussion with any hope of constructive outcome.
Nobody is denying this possibility. I'm only atating that the risk of molestation is greater if one is in a drug-induced state of unconsciousness.
Not saying that it doesn't happen. I have already stated that I am addressing the relative risks.
The answer is obvious.
Please refer to my links I have provided in which all victims were asleep.
Is the risk really greater if one is drugged rather than asleep? I suggest you read the articles I have provided. I believe I linked a total of 9 - and all victims were simply asleep, and all on planes (save for one from the NYC subway) and within the last 3 years. They awake to find someone touching their crotch or breasts, sometimes even with the hand down their pants. It is possible to do this quickly and successfully before a person fully awakes and becomes aware of what exactly is going on. Sometimes the molestation lasts for a few minutes while the victim is simply asleep.
Like I said - some sicko who is going to molest someone doesn't care whether she's asleep or drugged, he will do it anyway. He will stop once she stops him, whether it takes a half hour or two minutes.
Please refer to my links I have provided in which all victims were asleep.
I suspect strongly that the reason they were able to report these incidents is precisely because they were merely asleep and thus awoke during the molestation.
Can you imagine how many women are molested while in a drugged-stupor who never realized the violation took place?
I'm done with this conversation. You seem intent on denying the obvious. Good luck with that!
I suspect strongly that the reason they were able to report these incidents is precisely because they were merely asleep and thus awoke during the molestation.
Can you imagine how many women are molested while in a drugged-stupor who never realized the violation took place?
I'm done with this conversation. You seem intent on denying the obvious. Good luck with that!
The woman in this story was not aware what had happened until she felt it after she got up because he touched her vagina and used lotion, so she was covered in it. I think depending on the molestation, she may not know it happened, but in some cases, even in ones I linked, passengers witnessed it and told the victim and flight crew even though she was unaware, so it depends on the situation. But I just provided you EIGHT links in which victims knew what was happening from flights within the last few years. That is a high number. It's happening way too much (once is too much), and if it's also happening when they're drugged and don't even know it happened, that makes it even worse because it means even more women are being assaulted.
Perhaps the risk is higher if you're drugged but as I have shown, it happens at an alarming rate when women are simply asleep, too. So I guess the moral of the story is don't sleep on planes, either, because you may be raped?
And if you're so convinced YOU are right, why don't you provide me with proof that one is more likely to be molested when she's drugged rather than simply asleep, instead of leaving the conversation with just an opinion? You have to assume that the perp knows she's drugged rather than just asleep for you to be right. Unlikely, especially when on a plane. Many people take the drugs before boarding so it kicks in in time. Like I said, someone who wants to molest will do so either way, it's just a matter of when the victim becomes aware of it, if she does. It is also entirely possible to be asleep, and not even drugged, and not know it happened, depending on where exactly you were touched and for how long.
Moral of the story: There are men who are sick, piles of excrement who will take advantage of any woman, any time they can, society has not advanced past this, men will still make excuses about why it happens rather than doing all they can - as men- to prevent it from happening, and women and girls will never be safe until men take responsibility and control for the way other men act.
Moral of the story: There are men who are sick, piles of excrement who will take advantage of any woman, any time they can, society has not advanced past this, men will still make excuses about why it happens rather than doing all they can - as men- to prevent it from happening, and women and girls will never be safe until men take responsibility and control for the way other men act.
Lets not blame a woman for being the victim. I do not believe women "ask for it".
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Pretty much.
