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By definition decriminalization means that it would no longer be a criminal offense, if you were to make exceptions for people on parole or those who had prior convictions then it would not be decriminalized. Portugal decriminalized all drugs but can impose a civil penalty (fine) for possession of any drug including marijuana. There are criminal sanctions for dealing drugs.
Many prescription drugs can cause fatalities from OD & even recommended doses. Nobody has ever achieved a fatal OD with cannabis. So, it is comparing unlike things.
Did you notice how I said "abuse and misuse"? Obviously if you buy a prescription drug and don't use it according to the recommended dose on the box, you can overdose.
As I stated, in some Latin American countries you can buy any prescription drug you want at a pharmacy without a prescription. They do not have a prescription drug abuse epidemic. The drugs they sell include drugs that have become "street" drugs in the US.
people can still abuse and misuse cannabis to the point that they ruin their lives and can't hold a job and become homeless, or useless to society. thus, cannabis is a gateway drug to other drug use.
alcohol, which is legal, is often abused and misused and is the cause of thousands of deaths per year.
Did you notice how I said "abuse and misuse"? Obviously if you buy a prescription drug and don't use it according to the recommended dose on the box, you can overdose.
As I stated, in some Latin American countries you can buy any prescription drug you want at a pharmacy without a prescription. They do not have a prescription drug abuse epidemic. The drugs they sell include drugs that have become "street" drugs in the US.
people can still abuse and misuse cannabis to the point that they ruin their lives and can't hold a job and become homeless, or useless to society. thus, cannabis is a gateway drug to other drug use.
alcohol, which is legal, is often abused and misused and is the cause of thousands of deaths per year.
Glamorizing ANY drug, new or old, "street" or otherwise, is not only unrealistic, but completely unhelpful …
I find it amazingly amazing to read the glowing reports about "herb," extolling it as THE Wonder Miracle solution to just about every problem that has haunted us for the last 10,000 years ...
Why? Heroin and crack are illegal and they are an epidemic.
In some countries in South America you can buy any prescription drug over the counter. They don't have a problem with prescription drug abuse there.
In almost every country in the world, you can buy codeine over the counter, including Canada and Mexico. I came down with the flu in France and went to the corner pharmacy, where they sold me 500 ml of codeine cough syrup that put me out like a light at the label dosage. In the USA we actually have secret police who threaten physicians that prescribe too many pain killers. It's a big impetus for the assisted suicide movement, because doctors are strongly discouraged from prescribing enough pain killers at end of life.
Again … I do NOT favor "legalization" of MaryJane, but rather "decriminalization" …
When I tie the question to "legalization" of unregulated over*the*counter sale of all drugs, I am simply trying to follow the logic of the proponents of the Libertarian idea of just allowing people to put into their own bodies whatever they want (which is what this is really about) ...
If you are big on analogies, I assume you also support the repeal of all alcohol regulation in favor of "decriminalization?" You want to go back to the days of moonshine cut with wood alcohol, no honesty in the source or labeling, no standard proofs for hard liquor and no taxation?
You may think that libertarian ideals is what this is about, but that is your narrow definition. For many, perhaps even most people, it is about social harms caused by poorly thought out and enforced laws that need to be revised to meet reality.
In the general nicotine addicted population there is ZERO positive benefit and very deadly consequence …
Yes, it is true that nicotine is MILDLY anti-psychotic, hence the near universal self medication among schizophrenics …
But, again, as to my observation of the "camel's nose under the tent," I rest my case ...
Among other things, nicotine is an excellent appetite suppressant. A large part of the obesity epidemic in the US has been caused by a big reduction in the number of adults who use tobacco. It also relieves stress and improves attention span. You are just parroting anti-smoking propaganda, which is patently false. If it were not for the negative health effects, it would be hailed as a wonder drug.
I was trying to say some people who use prescription drugs die even at recommended doses. Pill cos. do not want any competition. They made taxpayers pay $1 trillion for 20,000 phony anti-cannabis studies.
Cannabis is used by people who already had ruined lives & couldn't hold a job. Cannabis has been accused of causing everything it treats, as many researchers could only get funding if they said what pill companies wanted them to say. Useless to society? Isn't it unfair to say that to those who use cannabis because of a condition present since birth? Cannabis does *not* create desire for other drugs, & has a plateau effect, where using more does not increase effects. Cannabis does not lower inhibitions.
Alcohol may kill 88,000 in US each year, pills 265,000+, tobacco a similar amount to pills, & now food is killing 500,000+ a year in US, in part because of added toxins. Cannabis kills 0, over 1 billion have used since Genesis with no proven deaths. Why would cannabis make a person homeless? Unless their house was seized by narco squad, I can't imagine. Who is this society you mention, employers? At least 40%+ will hire cannabis users & they tend to have better work records than those who call in sick due to effects of legal drugs. Cannabis is legal & cheap in N Korea, as manual laborers need it to work daily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangokiwi
Did you notice how I said "abuse and misuse"? Obviously if you buy a prescription drug and don't use it according to the recommended dose on the box, you can overdose.
As I stated, in some Latin American countries you can buy any prescription drug you want at a pharmacy without a prescription. They do not have a prescription drug abuse epidemic. The drugs they sell include drugs that have become "street" drugs in the US.
people can still abuse and misuse cannabis to the point that they ruin their lives and can't hold a job and become homeless, or useless to society. thus, cannabis is a gateway drug to other drug use.
alcohol, which is legal, is often abused and misused and is the cause of thousands of deaths per year.
I've spent many thousands of hours reading tens of thousands of pages about cannabis from hundreds of sources. Some sources have a money bias & some don't. After about 2,000 pages, it became easy for me to tell the difference. It really does help 250+ conditions, & limited anecdotal info suggests it may help 550-600 conditions. It seems odd to me to be against a plant that can help so many to live longer, healthier & happier lives. But I am very aware that some make all or part of their living from prohibition, so they never want the laws changed.
There are ads on TV that say an arthritis drug can cause 4 different conditions that are sometimes fatal. Yet cannabis is so much more restricted, when it kills nobody, & can help many more people. Some people get up to 100 years in prison for cannabis, how do you justify that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teilhard
Glamorizing ANY drug, new or old, "street" or otherwise, is not only unrealistic, but completely unhelpful …
I find it amazingly amazing to read the glowing reports about "herb," extolling it as THE Wonder Miracle solution to just about every problem that has haunted us for the last 10,000 years ...
If you are big on analogies, I assume you also support the repeal of all alcohol regulation in favor of "decriminalization?" You want to go back to the days of moonshine cut with wood alcohol, no honesty in the source or labeling, no standard proofs for hard liquor and no taxation?
You may think that libertarian ideals is what this is about, but that is your narrow definition. For many, perhaps even most people, it is about social harms caused by poorly thought out and enforced laws that need to be revised to meet reality.
I think the point is that decriminalizing is actually in practice much less restrictive than legalizing. With legalization you get standards, licensing, testing, age restrictions with i.d required, regulation and taxes. With decriminalization you get none of these protections, and the gangs still get to make all the money. What is it you believe is the big advantage of decriminalization versus legalization?
Also you have to stop leaping to legalize EVERYTHING, that poster mentioned only alcohol, and I as well was accused of wanting to legalize EVERYTHING when I never said any such thing.
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