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Old 11-17-2015, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,470,324 times
Reputation: 6336

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
You used an SOHR-sourced article to claim the Syrians were fleeing the government since the emphasis is on the government killing civilians. There are other news articles that indicate that the cause of the deaths is split roughly 50-50 between the Syrian government and the US-backed rebel forces. On the other hand, without the US coalition sponsorship of a de facto invasion of another sovereign, there would be no war and no war casualties.
LOL.

Actually this started from pro democracy protests which I believe were part the Arab Spring.

Syria: The story of the conflict - BBC News

Stop trying to blame everybody's idiocy on the US so you can get that free money. LOL
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Old 11-17-2015, 08:31 AM
 
13,250 posts, read 9,872,112 times
Reputation: 14296
Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
You used an SOHR-sourced article to claim the Syrians were fleeing the government since the emphasis is on the government killing civilians. There are other news articles that indicate that the cause of the deaths is split roughly 50-50 between the Syrian government and the US-backed rebel forces. On the other hand, without the US coalition sponsorship of a de facto invasion of another sovereign, there would be no war and no war casualties.
Okay. I'm not disagreeing with you.

But you said yourself it's 50/50.

So are they fleeing the government as well or not? The article was to demonstrate that the refugees cannot just go back and join their own military to save their "nation". I'm not going to argue with you about the numbers of challenges they face, and from exactly whom. You probably know more about that than I. But they are many, and it would appear the options for fighting back are all crap. Either rebel coalitions backed by the US government or Jihadi gangs.

I say they're better off out of there, both for themselves and for us that don't need yet more recruits thrown back to join god knows who.

Are they legitimate refugees or not? Given their options, I say they are indeed.
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Old 11-17-2015, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Tri STATE!!!
8,518 posts, read 3,736,256 times
Reputation: 6349
Deposing Assad let loose the floodgates of Isis hell. Why isn't anyone being honest about terrorism ? ANYBODY can change their thought process and listen to propaganda and decide to become a terrorist. How do you vet an idea? How do you vet somebodies thoughts? Somebody please tell me how? Remember the white guy from the US that was captured with the Taliban in Afghanistan? How do you kill an idea? That's got to be part of our mission against Isis....
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Old 11-17-2015, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,470,324 times
Reputation: 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
For that you have to ask the individual nations.

just guessing: most of the Gulf states have a lot of money, but no life sustaining resources. everything including food and water has to be imported. It is far easier for the Golf nations to give monetary aid. I do not know if any do.
It is expensive to house them and their never ending offspring here as well.

Looks like Angela Merkel has had a change of heart after the latest Islamic Celebration in Paris:

Refugee crisis: Angela Merkel signals deportation of economic migrants from Germany as EC President Jean-Claude Juncker calls for migration summit | Europe | News | The Independent
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:00 AM
 
132 posts, read 91,302 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Why don't more ME countries take in more ME refugees?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...rias-refugees/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
For that you have to ask the individual nations.

just guessing: most of the Gulf states have a lot of money, but no life sustaining resources. everything including food and water has to be imported. It is far easier for the Golf nations to give monetary aid. I do not know if any do.
I kept thinking the same thoughts as you both to the point that I was curious to see if there was any explanation as to why. It doesn't seem that anyone on this site has been able to respond why.

It would make sense for the Syrian refugees to be resettled in the rich Gulf countries as the integration would be easier for them since they speak the same language and share a common culture and of course their proximity. Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey have accepted them but they have nowhere the wealth the Gulf countries do. Let's not also forget that these Gulf countries have contributed to the dire situation in Syria by financially supporting the rebels there as well as providing military support. Even Arabs are calling out these countries for not doing much more.

I googled and found the bbc article that Kathryn posted previously but in addition to that, the other articles below provide more information.

The map below gives a breakdown of what countries in the Middle East have accepted the Syrian refugees.



It seems that the reasons are multi-faceted in terms of why the Gulf countries have not accepted Syrians as refugees (I've included quotes from several of the articles below):

Quote:
1) Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman and the UAE defend themselves by noting that each has given millions of dollars to the United Nations to help the refugees. (However, the U.S. is #1 in giving the most. UK is #2 and Kuwait is #3)

2) They stress that Syrians have entered Gulf states on visas (that allow them to work or study), and stayed. However, these visas have restrictions while a refugee status does not.

3) They also employ a "What about them?" defense, noting that the Gulf states aren't the only nations not helping give homes to victims of war. Amnesty International points out that other high-income countries like Russia, Japan, Singapore and South Korea have offered zero resettlement options.

4) Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain and other Gulf states are among the few nations in the world that have not signed a 1951 U.N. treaty on refugees. That's a key legal document that defines what a refugee is and spells out their rights and states' legal obligations. But since Gulf states haven't signed the treaty, any victim of war would need to meet the same standards as anyone else to obtain a visa. (However, this hasn't prevented them from taking in a large number of Palestinians, Lebanese and Yemenis following conflicts in their own countries but were never referred to as refugees. Many of these settlers are now naturalised citizens and have become successful entrepreneurs. Also, thousands of Kuwaiti refugees were given a place to live in the Gulf nations after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait.) Receiving refugee status in European states gives migrants the right to stay in the country indefinitely, guarantees access to social support, accommodation, schooling for children, language courses, and help with training for the job market.

4) Gulf states are hesitant to welcome refugees because they are concerned about what it would mean for their nations' security.

#Welcoming_Syria's_refugees_is_a_Gulf_duty

#ArabConscience
Migrant crisis: Why Syrians do not flee to Gulf states - BBC News
Refugee crisis: Europe takes many; Gulf states take none - CNN.com

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...-more-refugees

Why are the Gulf states so reluctant to take in refugees?

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallel...yrian-refugees

http://qz.com/494682/arabs-are-calli...help-refugees/

http://www.euronews.com/2015/09/25/w...s-or-are-they/

http://www.npr.org/2015/09/22/442582...yrian-refugees

http://www.kuna.net.kw/ArticleDetail...24&Language=en

Last edited by crazysoul; 11-17-2015 at 09:30 AM..
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,470,324 times
Reputation: 6336
You know the interesting thing here is points out to more hypocrisy.

Muslims are peaceful - Yet look at all of the violent acts we have seen committed in the name of this religion over many decades.

Muslims are generous and charitable. - But Muslim countries do not take in refugees.

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Old 11-17-2015, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,572,966 times
Reputation: 101051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
For that you have to ask the individual nations.
I'll jump right on that. I'm sure they'll be happy to explain it to me.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,023,829 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
I agree with you.

I agree with you to a point but I also do not believe I have the right to obligate others money to fund my beliefs. American Tax money should be used to upgrading our schools, our infrastructure and to assist Americans in need.

I look at America, and several other countries, as life boats. The life boat is floating, it is working as intended. There are a set number or people on the life boat that will survive. Is there an obligation to keep taking people on until the life boat founders and everyone dies or is brought to the same level of misery?

These problems did not just happen. These people have contributed to their own problems for many years and even generations. I see no reason to believe that they have the will or desire to offer any other country anything productive.

They do not seem that thankful to me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-w2rZV9cF8

Of course your religion may teach you of what is entitled to you and not to be thankful.

And their lives are so much more important than those murdered in Paris why?

This is such nonsense. My ancestors did not get handed anything and worked for what they had. Show me something similar to the Paris attacks committed by my ancestors.
Addressing these parts.


Quote:
Of course your religion may teach you of what is entitled to you and not to be thankful.
My religion has no formal or centralized teachings. We as individuals have the obligation to search and verify all things.

My finding in life is that none of us are entitled to anything or guaranteed anything. Our first obligation for fulfilling our own needs is to be a producer, giver and not a taker. I am obligated to give charity to the best of my ability and to do my best to prevent ever needing to be a recipient.


Quote:
And their lives are so much more important than those murdered in Paris why?
Every life including yours, mine, the refugees and the Paris victims are of equal value and all life should be protected, even if we personally disagree with someone.


Quote:
This is such nonsense. My ancestors did not get handed anything and worked for what they had. Show me something similar to the Paris attacks committed by my ancestors.
Neither did mine.

The Syrian refugees in North Dakota came here mostly in the late 1800s and Early 1900s, Many came as Fur traders and merchants, others as farmers. They worked hard and their decendents are still working hard.

Bridging Cultures Bookshelf: Muslim Journeys
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,470,324 times
Reputation: 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Addressing these parts.

My religion has no formal or centralized teachings. We as individuals have the obligation to search and verify all things.
So you are saying that Islam may not be a religion of peace?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My finding in life is that none of us are entitled to anything or guaranteed anything. Our first obligation for fulfilling our own needs is to be a producer, giver and not a taker. I am obligated to give charity to the best of my ability and to do my best to prevent ever needing to be a recipient.

Every life including yours, mine, the refugees and the Paris victims are of equal value and all life should be protected, even if we personally disagree with someone.

Neither did mine.

The Syrian refugees in North Dakota came here mostly in the late 1800s and Early 1900s, Many came as Fur traders and merchants, others as farmers. They worked hard and their decendents are still working hard.

Bridging Cultures Bookshelf: Muslim Journeys
I am not against accepting the Syrian refugees in the 1800's or early 1900's. I am against accepting the ones in the 2000's.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 17,023,829 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I'll jump right on that. I'm sure they'll be happy to explain it to me.
I have just as much a chance as getting an answer as you have.

While I like most Arabs I am not very fond of the Kingdoms and Sheikdoms on the Arabian Peninsula. I see a small number of families controlling all the wealth in the Gulf States.
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