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Old 10-30-2016, 06:20 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,112 posts, read 107,301,106 times
Reputation: 115913

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
You don't think maybe the school might face some serious legal and liability issues hiring some neighborhood tough kids to "get tough with" younger students? From a liability management standpoint they're probably better off negligently letting a 5-year-old skip the bus and walk home by himself.
Really? Better off?? What if one day a little kid never makes it home? What if a little girl disappears forever on her way home, because she was afraid to ride the bus? "Getting tough with" the smaller kids doesn't take much. Mostly an "I mean business" attitude, body language, and tone of voice. If the kids are so out of control that that doesn't work, the school has more serious problems. But this situation shouldn't be allowed to continue. The principal could kick troublesome students out of the bus service altogether, and tell parents they need to provide their own transportation for their kid, because he's too unruly to be allowed on the bus.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:24 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,112 posts, read 107,301,106 times
Reputation: 115913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
Who's running the place, the kids or the grownups?

The bus driver is at fault for not accounting for all of the kids on the route before leaving. The bus driver may also be at fault if (s)he knew or should have known there was an ongoing problem and neither dealt with it him/herself nor informed the school administrators about it. The administration is at fault for letting the bus leave before all of the kids on the route were accounted for. They are also at fault for letting a 5-year-old just walk off on his own without so much as verifying with the parent if that was OK. And the administration may be at fault if they were notified that there was an ongoing problem on the bus and did not adequately deal with it.

Of all the blame to go around here, the bullies themselves fall near the bottom if nobody has pulled them aside to tell them their behavior is unacceptable and won't be tolerated. Kids are not naturally kind to each other, especially as they get older. Kindness is a learned behavior that must constantly be taught and reinforced. If that's not happening, then the adults failed in that aspect too.
The driver can't possibly be held responsible for knowing what kids are supposed to be on the bus, and what kids were sick that day, or were picked up by a parent to go to a music lesson or doc appointment, or whatever.
Kids who are being bullied, whether on school grounds or on the bus, need to know that they can complain to their teacher. School staff and admin need to have a way of knowing that bullying is going on.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:36 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
9,512 posts, read 6,052,530 times
Reputation: 28830
The reason as to why a 5 year old was not safely boarded on the bus; although sad (bullies s**k), is not the most relevant issue at hand.

The safety of students HAS to be a schools first priority. They could have kept the child in the office & called the mother to ask her to come get him.

My youngest is bused under SPED policies but from what I understand for non-SPED busing; Elementary School students in our area who are bused must wait inside at the office if alternative arrangements are needed for that day. "Just going to walk home today..." is not an adequate "alternative arrangement" for Elementary students but it is considered acceptable for Middle/High school students

If I were ever waiting for my kid at a bus stop & he/she was MISSING? Momzilla would be on the warpath ...
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Brackenwood
9,932 posts, read 5,602,921 times
Reputation: 22079
Quote:
Originally Posted by northwesty View Post
You have just neatly summarized the problem with our current culture. Everyone is to blame.... except the bullies and their parents... oh, unless we have informed the little snots that their "behavior is unacceptable." And that does not work like it used to.
You left out the other half, that the behavior not be tolerated. Discipline doesn't start and stop at home. The institutions that have our kids for 7 hours a day have to be a part of it too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northwesty View Post
My niece is a kindergarten teacher. She informed a student that his behavior was unacceptable. She got a response, "F-you,"--from a five-year-old. When the principal called his parents the mother responded, "well, the teacher must have been really rude to him for him to use such language."

We are fully immersed in a "who's fault is this?" culture. Everyone is to blame but me and mine.

Sad.
So what did the school do about it? If the answer is "nothing," then yes, they're partly to blame.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Really? Better off?? What if one day a little kid never makes it home? What if a little girl disappears forever on her way home, because she was afraid to ride the bus? "Getting tough with" the smaller kids doesn't take much. Mostly an "I mean business" attitude, body language, and tone of voice. If the kids are so out of control that that doesn't work, the school has more serious problems. But this situation shouldn't be allowed to continue. The principal could kick troublesome students out of the bus service altogether, and tell parents they need to provide their own transportation for their kid, because he's too unruly to be allowed on the bus.
Hiring kids to be disciplinarians for other kids is such a flat-out nutty idea that no sane school district would even consider entertaining it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
The driver can't possibly be held responsible for knowing what kids are supposed to be on the bus, and what kids were sick that day, or were picked up by a parent to go to a music lesson or doc appointment, or whatever.
Why not? My daughter's bus driver does it every day. If a kid isn't on the bus who is supposed to be, then he doesn't leave until he finds out from the school where that student is (sick, going potty, wandering the hall, picked up by a parent, whatever.) And if he ever does, that will probably be his last day on the job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Kids who are being bullied, whether on school grounds or on the bus, need to know that they can complain to their teacher. School staff and admin need to have a way of knowing that bullying is going on.
Well I don't think we disagree about that.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:44 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
9,512 posts, read 6,052,530 times
Reputation: 28830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Really? Better off?? What if one day a little kid never makes it home? What if a little girl disappears forever on her way home, because she was afraid to ride the bus? "Getting tough with" the smaller kids doesn't take much. Mostly an "I mean business" attitude, body language, and tone of voice. If the kids are so out of control that that doesn't work, the school has more serious problems. But this situation shouldn't be allowed to continue. The principal could kick troublesome students out of the bus service altogether, and tell parents they need to provide their own transportation for their kid, because he's too unruly to be allowed on the bus.
I agree. Our schools actually do use older students in "Mentor" roles such as "Buddy" or "Peer-Advocate" programs.

The older students are screened & must have "references" just like an adult volunteer. These older students may also use these hours spent as Mentors as legitimate "Volunteer" credits when applying for College/University.

It's a win-win scenario; really.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:49 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,112 posts, read 107,301,106 times
Reputation: 115913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
Hiring kids to be disciplinarians for other kids is such a flat-out nutty idea that no sane school district would even consider entertaining it..
Really? Well I don't hear anyone else coming up with ideas, certainly not the schools....


Except for this one:
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi;
I agree. Our schools actually do use older students in "Mentor" roles such as "Buddy" or "Peer-Advocate" programs.

The older students are screened & must have "references" just like an adult volunteer. These older students may also use these hours spent as Mentors as legitimate "Volunteer" credits when applying for College/University.

It's a win-win scenario; really.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Brackenwood
9,932 posts, read 5,602,921 times
Reputation: 22079
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
I agree. Our schools actually do use older students in "Mentor" roles such as "Buddy" or "Peer-Advocate" programs.

The older students are screened & must have "references" just like an adult volunteer. These older students may also use these hours spent as Mentors as legitimate "Volunteer" credits when applying for College/University.

It's a win-win scenario; really.
There's a difference between a peer mentor program and actually paying kids to "get tough" and keep other kids in line.
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Old 10-30-2016, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Saint John, IN
11,583 posts, read 6,696,941 times
Reputation: 14786
My daughter is in 3rd grade and this is the first year she has ever rode the bus to school since we moved over the summer. She was nervous and so was I, but her bus driver is fantastic! She has a seating chart that the children are assigned to by grade level. She will not drop off a child without the parent at the bus stop. If they are older than Kindergarten she will drop them off if she see's your garage door open. Otherwise no parent, no garage open then the child goes back to the school. Any nonsense on the bus and the child is reported to the school for discipline.
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Old 10-30-2016, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY 🇺🇸
36,754 posts, read 14,758,885 times
Reputation: 35584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
The driver can't possibly be held responsible for knowing what kids are supposed to be on the bus, and what kids were sick that day, or were picked up by a parent to go to a music lesson or doc appointment, or whatever.
Kids who are being bullied, whether on school grounds or on the bus, need to know that they can complain to their teacher. School staff and admin need to have a way of knowing that bullying is going on.

But a driver ought to know what's going on in the bus, and no one's going to convince me that s/he didn't. That feedback is how most districts get monitors assigned to buses, at least in this venue.

As for school personnel not ensuring that 5-year-olds are boarding the buses, that's reprehensible. Sounds like this poor little child suffered while everyone around him dropped the ball.
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Old 10-31-2016, 12:38 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,112 posts, read 107,301,106 times
Reputation: 115913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post
But a driver ought to know what's going on in the bus, and no one's going to convince me that s/he didn't. That feedback is how most districts get monitors assigned to buses, at least in this venue.

As for school personnel not ensuring that 5-year-olds are boarding the buses, that's reprehensible. Sounds like this poor little child suffered while everyone around him dropped the ball.
Judging by some of the posts here, some schools are better organized in this respect than others. There have been too many news reports over the years of outright assaults taking place on school buses, all kinds of mayhem, and the driver isn't authorized to do anything about it. I think that if crimes are being committed on the bus, the driver should take a detour to the police department. For lesser infractions, there should be a way to report the kids to the school authorities, as in one example given above.
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