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Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 5 days ago)
35,620 posts, read 17,953,728 times
Reputation: 50641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bully
Mandatory paternity tests at birth would mostly solve these sorts of problems. Some people object to the costs of these tests, but that's just an excuse. Dozens of tests are done to the mother and child during pregnancy and right after birth. One more isn't going to significantly alter the costs of childbirth. Don't worry I'm not talking about doing it retroactively, so you ladies out there who have something to hide would have no worries.
This is no one's business if the State isn't on the hook to pay for the children. There are certainly couples who get together during a pregnancy, and the man decides to raise the child as his own, and couples who are together but break up for a brief period of time and then a pregnancy occurs and they get back together.
It's honestly not the state's business who the father is, as long as the state isn't providing services or money that the dad should be doing.
Additionally, this won't solve everything because in cases where paternity is in doubt, often the father isn't present for testing or the mother doesn't know between 3-4 men who the dad might be. If she's not receiving welfare, it's no one's business.
It seems you want to pin guilt and shame on women, but they're right there raising the baby. How about a little guilt and shame for the slam bam thank you ma'am guys who are now long-gone?
BTW, a man who has ANY doubts at all if he's the father of a child can just swab the cheek and send it into the lab. And pay for it. Less than $100. That is, of course, if he's around.
It seems you want to pin guilt and shame on women, but they're right there raising the baby. How about a little guilt and shame for the slam bam thank you ma'am guys who are now long-gone?
A lot of women step out on their ole man. Why not DNA test every child born?
This is no one's business if the State isn't on the hook to pay for the children. There are certainly couples who get together during a pregnancy, and the man decides to raise the child as his own, and couples who are together but break up for a brief period of time and then a pregnancy occurs and they get back together.
It's honestly not the state's business who the father is, as long as the state isn't providing services or money that the dad should be doing.
Additionally, this won't solve everything because in cases where paternity is in doubt, often the father isn't present for testing or the mother doesn't know between 3-4 men who the dad might be. If she's not receiving welfare, it's no one's business.
It seems you want to pin guilt and shame on women, but they're right there raising the baby. How about a little guilt and shame for the slam bam thank you ma'am guys who are now long-gone?
BTW, a man who has ANY doubts at all if he's the father of a child can just swab the cheek and send it into the lab. And pay for it. Less than $100. That is, of course, if he's around.
All relationships can end in custody situations. You'd probably argue tooth and nail that a man who has raised a child and later found out it was not his should still be obligated to pay support because he had established a parenting relationship. So long as the courts are involved in custody and child support enforcement it remains reasonable for the courts to also seek to establish paternity from the outset. It is also in the father and child's best interests. The only person whose best interests it is not in is the mother's. Fathers have been told for years that their interests are irrelevant where they conflict with the best interests of the child. Is this not also true of mothers? I'm starting to think women fight so hard against mandatory paternity testing because many of them believe paternity fraud is their natural right as a woman.
Besides, in the cases you site where the guy knows he's not the dad but wants to raise the kid anyway, a negative paternity test would not stop him from doing so.
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 5 days ago)
35,620 posts, read 17,953,728 times
Reputation: 50641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanker-yanker
A lot of women step out on their ole man. Why not DNA test every child born?
Why is that anyone's business except the couple's? A lot of men suspect/know a child isn't theirs but decide to ignore that fact.
What about couples who are infertile and so they go to a sperm bank but want to keep that private, and want to raise their child as if it is the biological child of the husband? What would they do with this mandatory DNA test?
Honestly, I don't get the benefit of sticking the nose of the state into people's bedrooms. If a man has a desire to know paternity, he can just have the test done. Very discretely and privately.
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 5 days ago)
35,620 posts, read 17,953,728 times
Reputation: 50641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bully
All relationships can end in custody situations. You'd probably argue tooth and nail that a man who has raised a child and later found out it was not his should still be obligated to pay support because he had established a parenting relationship. So long as the courts are involved in custody and child support enforcement it remains reasonable for the courts to also seek to establish paternity from the outset. It is also in the father and child's best interests. The only person whose best interests it is not in is the mother's. Fathers have been told for years that their interests are irrelevant where they conflict with the best interests of the child. Is this not also true of mothers? I'm starting to think women fight so hard against mandatory paternity testing because many of them believe paternity fraud is their natural right as a woman.
Besides, in the cases you site where the guy knows he's not the dad but wants to raise the kid anyway, a negative paternity test would not stop him from doing so.
I'm always extremely off-put by internet posts that begin "you probably think".
If a DNA test were mandated by the state, it's hard to believe a man would be able to say "I'm not the biodad but I want to be on this child's birth certificate as the father". That wouldn't happen.
I am dismayed, actually, at a man who can raise a child thinking it's his own, love it, be willing basically to die for it until he finds out it isn't biologically related to him. And then he walks away and doesn't want to provide food for that child, and is willing to leave him in grinding poverty. I find that baffling.
In cases where babies are accidentally switched at birth and parents find out when the child is 7 that it isn't biologically related to them, it's AGONIZING. Those parents want BOTH kids - the one that's biologically theirs, and the one they love with all their hearts that they are raising.
In that context, if I found out now that one of my kids was accidentally switched, and is not my DNA, I would not love him less, and would not deny him any of the privileges of being my child, including inheritance, inclusion in family events, etc.
I don't understand how a man can walk away from a child who thinks of him as daddy. But I've sure seen it.
I'm always extremely off-put by internet posts that begin "you probably think".
If a DNA test were mandated by the state, it's hard to believe a man would be able to say "I'm not the biodad but I want to be on this child's birth certificate as the father". That wouldn't happen.
I am dismayed, actually, at a man who can raise a child thinking it's his own, love it, be willing basically to die for it until he finds out it isn't biologically related to him. I find that baffling.
In cases where babies are accidentally switched at birth and parents find out when the child is 7 that it isn't biologically related to them, it's AGONIZING. Those parents want BOTH kids - the one that's biologically theirs, and the one they love with all their hearts that they are raising.
In that context, if I found out now that one of my kids was accidentally switched, and is not my DNA, I would not love him less, and would not deny him any of the privileges of being my child, including inheritance, inclusion in family events, etc.
I don't understand how a man can walk away from a child who thinks of him as daddy. But I've sure seen it.
Ahh we're down to "accidentally switched at birth" scenarios now. lol That's last ditch effort right there. All of your shaming and objections could be rendered irrelevant with a mandatory paternity test at birth, yet you argue yourself breathless against such a thing. You're trying to get ol'boy coming and going. Wrong to establish paternity up front, wrong to abdicate legal and financial responsibility when he later finds out the child isn't his. Not reasonable.
I bet you'd also threaten to leave a man who tried to establish paternity upfront without a legal mandate as well. "Don't you trust me?!?"
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 5 days ago)
35,620 posts, read 17,953,728 times
Reputation: 50641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bully
Ahh we're down to "accidentally switched at birth" scenarios now. lol That's last ditch effort right there. All of your shaming and objections could be rendered irrelevant with a mandatory paternity test at birth, yet you argue yourself breathless against such a thing. You're trying to get ol'boy coming and going. Wrong to establish paternity up front, wrong to abdicate legal and financial responsibility when he later finds out the child isn't his. Not reasonable.
I bet you'd also threaten to leave a man who tried to establish paternity upfront without a legal mandate as well. "Don't you trust me?!?"
You're hilarious at guessing things about me, actually.
You didn't read for understanding, bully. I'm not saying kids who turn out not to be offspring of the dad in a paternity test were "switched at birth". I'm comparing how I would feel, if I found out I was not the mother of my children, and the only way for that to happen is for them to be switched at birth. I would feel the same about them.
I'm sorry you've been in situations where you appear not to be able to trust that your kids are your kids, and therefore approve of DNA testing everyone's kids. My kids are my husbands, and it would actually be a little funny if he took them down to the DNA lab for testing. Uh sir, are you standing here saying this is not your child? Uh, have you looked in the mirror?
I don't understand your desire to DNA test other people's children, when it's no one's business but their own, and it seems to come from a place of glee in discovering a woman's guilt (who you don't actually know).
And actually, to answer your question, I would be very upset if my husband demanded a DNA test accusing me of cheating on him. As should anyone where there is zero reason to suspect, based on my character and our relationship. So yes, I'd be angry and it would taint my joy of new motherhood. And really, my husband isn't stupid enough to do that - if he had serious doubts for some reason, he'd do it quietly. Because it's a big slap in the face to have the father of your child demand a DNA test, and it's a statement that he doesn't believe you.
Which IS true in some relationships, and in those cases, those men have every right and reason to get a dna test.
So by all means, go get your own kids DNA tested, and good luck with that.
But they have no right to demand it of other couples they don't even know.
The courts will almost always find in favor of the minor child.
What happened in these cases is the man tried to hide and didn't fight/DNA test right away. If you don't fight it, the court assumes you are the father and therefore responsible.
I know a man today who is most likely paying for 4 children that are not his. We told him before they were born to insist on DNA testing but he never did. His wife had serious mental issues and would sleep around a LOT! He knew she was not to be trusted but he wouldn't stand up for himself and now he pays the price.
You're hilarious at guessing things about me, actually.
You didn't read for understanding, bully. I'm not saying kids who turn out not to be offspring of the dad in a paternity test were "switched at birth". I'm comparing how I would feel, if I found out I was not the mother of my children, and the only way for that to happen is for them to be switched at birth. I would feel the same about them.
I'm sorry you've been in situations where you appear not to be able to trust that your kids are your kids, and therefore approve of DNA testing everyone's kids. My kids are my husbands, and it would actually be a little funny if he took them down to the DNA lab for testing. Uh sir, are you standing here saying this is not your child? Uh, have you looked in the mirror?
I don't understand your desire to DNA test other people's children, when it's no one's business but their own, and it seems to come from a place of glee in discovering a woman's guilt (who you don't actually know).
And actually, to answer your question, I would be very upset if my husband demanded a DNA test accusing me of cheating on him. As should anyone where there is zero reason to suspect, based on my character and our relationship. So yes, I'd be angry and it would taint my joy of new motherhood. And really, my husband isn't stupid enough to do that - if he had serious doubts for some reason, he'd do it quietly. Because it's a big slap in the face to have the father of your child demand a DNA test, and it's a statement that he doesn't believe you.
Which IS true in some relationships, and in those cases, those men have every right and reason to get a dna test.
So by all means, go get your own kids DNA tested, and good luck with that.
But they have no right to demand it of other couples they don't even know.
So you admit you'd be pissed if your husband wanted a test from the beginning, you are against mandatory tests that would take the trust issue out of it, and if he later found out the child wasn't his, you'd still think he should have a legal obligation to pay child support for it. Interesting. You don't give fathers a lot of wiggle room.
I'll tell you what though, it is in every man's interests to ensure men in general don't get caught in paternity fraud situations, just as it is apparently in women's best interests to ensure women in general can get away with paternity fraud situations with their child support orders still in tact.
And if you saw how good looking my kids are you wouldn't doubt for a minute that they are mine.
What about couples who are infertile and so they go to a sperm bank but want to keep that private, and want to raise their child as if it is the biological child of the husband?
Cause every child deserves to know the truth and have a chance to be raised by both of their parents.
Lying to a child is dead wrong. Being a sperm bank kid is not easy. At least let the person know. What are you afraid of by letting them know?
There is lots of information on late discovery adoptees. ****ing sucks to have the people that "love you" lie to you.
Last edited by Tanker-yanker; 07-25-2017 at 04:06 PM..
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