Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
RIP Billy Graham. Thank you for all the great work you did during your journey here on Earth. Your legacy will always be remembered here as your mission continues on eternally in Heaven.
Surprised some of the posts attacking Billy Graham haven't been deleted by a moderator. I posted something approximately three weeks ago that had nothing to do with politics and were not controversial, yet they were cut by a mod. Interesting what people have gotten away with in this thread that should be about honoring the late Rev. Graham. Those that want to attack and debate need to take it to another forum.
Billy did a lot of good in the world, helping people to reconnect with their faith, and for some connect with it for the first time. He did more good for mankind than most men could ever hope to achieve during their lifetime. No man is perfect, and he'd be the first to tell people that.
During one of his outdoor sermons I heard him mention someone that told him he didn't go to church because there were too many hypocrites there. Rev. Graham told him, "When you find the perfect church, go there and it will no longer be perfect.".
One of the things I learned about him from his Roku channel was that he had a crusade in England in 1954. There had been a video on his channel a couple years ago from that crusade. Couldn't find that specific video on his website. It was worth watching. People came from little towns and cities all over England to watch him in London. They showed people getting off the trains excited and rushing to get to the event. They ended up extending the number of events to accommodate as many people as possible that wanted to go.
He inspired a lot of people to act as good, decent Christian men and women. God bless him for that.
As I definitely implied in my post, I have no problem with anyone who has earned their wealth honestly and without hurting anyone. I also did not imply that Billy Graham earned his money dishonestly, although I do take issue with ANY church (or any other kind of organization) getting wealthy from taking advantage of people's stupidity and/or gullibility -- that I DID say, and I don't retract it. And, yes, I do think people are stupid if they send money that they can't afford to anyone for something that does not directly benefit them, but I think they are especially stupid/gullible if they send money they can't afford to fatten the bank account of someone or some church whose stated beliefs repeatedly stress the idea to give to the poor and not TAKE from the poor, although in practice they do the opposite.
Of course, I will very readily and willing admit that Graham was not nearly as bad as some other church leaders!
And, of course, I firmly believe that it is the right of anyone to spend their money however they like, but to repeat, I just object to people who would take advantage of someone's stupidity and gullibility, and I do think that anyone who believes someone who says that "the Lord" told him he needs a jet is very stupid and gullible.
At best, that means your previous post was very poorly written. Further, it is just bad taste to use a thread that is to memorialize Billy Graham as a vehicle to bash those of the Christian faith that you want to criticize.
In 1963 my grandmother came out to visit from Chicago. Billy Graham was holding a crusade in Los Angeles, and she talked my reluctant parents into taking her. To their own surprise, they wanted to go back. They ended up going every night that week, and because of Graham's preaching, they heard and believed the Gospel. I was not born yet, but my older siblings told me how becoming Christians changed our parents from being often angry and bitter, to being loving and forgiving.
I know Graham wasn't perfect; no one is perfect, but he was certainly used by God to reach many people for good. I'm grateful for his life and ministry.
In 1963 my grandmother came out to visit from Chicago. Billy Graham was holding a crusade in Los Angeles, and she talked my reluctant parents into taking her. To their own surprise, they wanted to go back. They ended up going every night that week, and because of Graham's preaching, they heard and believed the Gospel. I was not born yet, but my older siblings told me how becoming Christians changed our parents from being often angry and bitter, to being loving and forgiving.
I know Graham wasn't perfect; no one is perfect, but he was certainly used by God to reach many people for good. I'm grateful for his life and ministry.
Thank you for sharing your story. We are here for one reason. To tell others about Jesus. Billy Graham certainly did that in a big way. He was a very humble man. A true servant of the Lord.
Surprised some of the posts attacking Billy Graham haven't been deleted by a moderator. I posted something approximately three weeks ago that had nothing to do with politics and were not controversial, yet they were cut by a mod. Interesting what people have gotten away with in this thread that should be about honoring the late Rev. Graham. Those that want to attack and debate need to take it to another forum.
Billy did a lot of good in the world, helping people to reconnect with their faith, and for some connect with it for the first time. He did more good for mankind than most men could ever hope to achieve during their lifetime. No man is perfect, and he'd be the first to tell people that.
During one of his outdoor sermons I heard him mention someone that told him he didn't go to church because there were too many hypocrites there. Rev. Graham told him, "When you find the perfect church, go there and it will no longer be perfect.".
One of the things I learned about him from his Roku channel was that he had a crusade in England in 1954. There had been a video on his channel a couple years ago from that crusade. Couldn't find that specific video on his website. It was worth watching. People came from little towns and cities all over England to watch him in London. They showed people getting off the trains excited and rushing to get to the event. They ended up extending the number of events to accommodate as many people as possible that wanted to go.
He inspired a lot of people to act as good, decent Christian men and women. God bless him for that.
Mod actions tend to be somewhat willy nilly. Defend yourself against an attack? People go after the defender for some curious reason.
As I definitely implied in my post, I have no problem with anyone who has earned their wealth honestly and without hurting anyone.
This is what you said about preachers, ANY preacher, and you gave a dollar limit to what a "True Christian" (especially, but apparently not limited to, a preacher) should be able to have:
Quote:
I can only speak for myself, of course, but to me, any TRUE Christian -- and especially a minister/pastor -- would be ashamed to die with more than his fairly modest home paid for and perhaps $500,000 in additional assets, if that -- as a safeguard against old age, sickness and possible poverty;
So ANY "TRUE" Christian should have no more than a certain amount. "Especially" a minister or pastor.
You don't go into how they got their money. And since you don't single out only preachers (you just said "especially") this means that any Christian (not just preachers) could make their money however (maybe investments, oil, working really hard and saving?), but they still shouldn't end up with more than $500,000 or else they're no longer a "TRUE" Christian.
This is utter rubbish.
Quote:
I also did not imply that Billy Graham earned his money dishonestly, although I do take issue with ANY church (or any other kind of organization) getting wealthy from taking advantage of people's stupidity and/or gullibility -- that I DID say, and I don't retract it.
But you have no proof that Graham did this, or that every preacher/pastor does this, OR that every other non-preacher Christian who has more than $500,000 does this and therefore should be ashamed.
I agree that some preachers are all about money money money, but many are not. You can't know right off the bat which ones are scammers and which don't. So, your blanket assumption that any "True" Christian (especially a pastor/preacher) having that much money should be ashamed...why? And why $500,000? Why not a little less? Why not double that amount? Maybe they have a lot of kids they need to put through college and they need more money. Who are you to judge their finances and tell them they are not a "TRUE" Christian if they have over a certain amount of money?
I don't know much about Billy Graham. To me he is a lot like Princess Diana; if he meant something to you his death means something to you also. Doesn't make much difference to me.
What I don't understand is why he will lie in state in the US capitol Bulding. I hope his "ministry" will be covering the costs of this, I don't feel the US taxpayer should.
What I don't understand is why he will lie in state in the US capitol Bulding. I hope his "ministry" will be covering the costs of this, I don't feel the US taxpayer should.
He's a dead guy and they're having a funeral for him. He's not preaching a sermon.
You do realize that there are many govt. run ceremonies and such where a preacher talks? Obama's inauguration had a preacher giving a prayer. Oh no! Separation of church and state! Make him shut up! My delicate ears!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
