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Libraries are essentially outdated book warehouses. They are used mainly by elderly people and with the proliferation of online research sources and e-books there will come a time where libraries get shuttered.
I have not set foot in a library in over 25 years but if the attendance validates the existence of one then sure keep it open for the public. However once the attendance drops off to levels of "more employees in the place than patrons" then it is time to close up shop!
Speak for yourself about going into the library. You don't do it, but thousands upon thousands of people do, especially as bookstores have been shuttered. All the young people who used to hang out at Borders Books and Barnes and Noble still want and need a place to to go.
Libraries are not only book depositories, but gathering places where community members of all ages get together to take free classes on a variety of subjects. The vast majority of library users I have seen are high school age students and children. They have homework study time and many other activities.
It is not true to suggest that library patrons who go into the library are primarily elderly. They are primarily not elderly.
It wasn't about "civil rights" - mental hospitals were closed because of an overly optimistic belief in what near-future medicine could solve at the time (based on so many other actual successes in the 20th century) and general cost cutting.
The "crazies" weren't turned loose because of "bleeding heart liberals." They were turned loose thanks to overly optimistic scientists and the cold budget calculations of many people in many states, including conservative heroes like Reagan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Like Sugar
Yeah, that sucks. I am glad I didn’t follow through on my plans to become a librarian.
But don't you guys all see that these problems stem from this backwards thinking of "the library is open to all"? That's how you wound up with people that shouldn't be in a public facility with other people, in there abusing the privilege of the library.
If libraries would not admit people that are:
a) intoxicated or under the influence of any substance
b) smelly
c) dirty
d) known to be a problem (previously have done ANYTHING to violate the rules of use of the library)
e) not an actual patron (no card)
...then these issues would mostly vanish.
I mean, can you imagine if you applied the same laxity to the public schools as to libraries? It would be a nightmare..homeless using the facilities, crazy people crashing classes, etc.
There shouldn't be an expectation that dirty gross miscreants and crazy people can just wander around into every public building, especially not one dedicated to learning and education and which is traditionally associated with decorum (be quiet, be respectful of others and the facility and its materials).
Speak for yourself about going into the library. You don't do it, but thousands upon thousands of people do, especially as bookstores have been shuttered. All the young people who used to hang out at Borders Books and Barnes and Noble still want and need a place to to go.
Libraries are not only book depositories, but gathering places where community members of all ages get together to take free classes on a variety of subjects. The vast majority of library users I have seen are high school age students and children. They have homework study time and many other activities.
It is not true to suggest that library patrons who go into the library are primarily elderly. They are primarily not elderly.
Yes, the libraries get a lot of use. They have evolved with technology. A lot less of the use is for physical books, but a lot of people still prefer them to electronic. Libraries are not just about books, they are information centers.
The one where my wife works has about 60 computers that are in use almost constantly by people of all ages. People come to the library for tax forms, voter registration forms, voter information booklets, information about community events, local author presentations. Children story-time is very well attended. Libraries also have E-books that can be checked out for a specific time and then disappear form your device unless renewed. They "rent" movies on DVD and maybe still some VHS. They provide access to subscription periodicals both on line in in print. People come looking for how to find employment opportunities. While librarians cannot perform searches for patrons, they can explain how something like google works, and many people do not know. Libraries have lots of college information in booklets that are not available online. Libraries promote the art of storytelling by hosting sessions for members of the public to come listen to professional storytellers. The provide conference facilities for community events. They usually have a local history room or section with information that is not available anywhere else. Things like sanborne maps, diaries and journals, photographs. Libraries provide a place for making a quick copy or printing something, a service I have used in a pinch while travelling.
People of all ages use them, but it is more older and younger people than middle aged. Still it is a mix and they are pretty heavily used.
Sometimes retired people come to the library just to hang out because they have nothing to do. School kids use libraries to study. (And some parents drop young kids off when they have no one to watch them and expect the librarians to care for their children).
Yes Homeless people also often hang out at libraries. Shelters usually make them leave form 8 or 9 a.m. until 5 p.m. A library is a warm place that must allow them to come in and hang out all day (as long as they behave).
The library my wife works at serves five smallish communities (10,000 - 40,000 residents). Each participating community pays a share of the cost of operation based on how many of their residents use the library. I do not know the number of users each year but I know it is in the tens of thousands and may well be 100,000. And those are the recorded users. They also get a lot of people form other communities who can use the library through an exchange program.
Library administrators can instruct employees to be hands-off so that it doesn't look like the library is discriminating against any class of people. It's fear of litigation: libraries have been sued for banning smelly patrons, for example.
One urban library I worked in barely enforced rules for this reason. We couldn't ban patrons from viewing porn because it violated their 1st amendment rights, for instance. It was a "customer is always right" mentality that didn't take into consideration that some of the "customers" were unruly and addicted/drunk and were driving out the patrons who were none of these things. There was a high level of burn-out and turnover among staff. It was a depressing, gross, and sometimes scary work environment.
When the library moved to a new location, it hired a new director who DID enforce patron conduct rules and hired ample security staff to police the place. The atmosphere improved noticeably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot
But don't you guys all see that these problems stem from this backwards thinking of "the library is open to all"? That's how you wound up with people that shouldn't be in a public facility with other people, in there abusing the privilege of the library.).
[quote=Coldjensens;51163946]Yes, the libraries get a lot of use. They have evolved with technology. A lot less of the use is for physical books, but a lot of people still prefer them to electronic. Libraries are not just about books, they are information centers.
@Coldjensens, what a well-written nice long description of the purpose of libraries. There was a time when I wanted so much to be a librarian, and for all the reasons you listed. Thanks for sharing that.
I couldn’t live with myself if I had the potential to stop this from happening but I didn’t because it might be illegal!
Lock me up, whatever; it’s just jail. At least I’d know I did the right thing.
Editing to add that I can’t actually use either myself because I’m allergic to peppers & I would incapacitate myself before I’d be of any use to someone else. I do carry a stun gun but there is absolutely no way to prepare yourself from this happening to you. Help someone else? Yes. Yourself? I’m not sure.
Last edited by coschristi; 02-28-2018 at 01:35 AM..
Library administrators can instruct employees to be hands-off so that it doesn't look like the library is discriminating against any class of people. It's fear of litigation: libraries have been sued for banning smelly patrons, for example.
One urban library I worked in barely enforced rules for this reason. We couldn't ban patrons from viewing porn because it violated their 1st amendment rights, for instance. It was a "customer is always right" mentality that didn't take into consideration that some of the "customers" were unruly and addicted/drunk and were driving out the patrons who were none of these things. There was a high level of burn-out and turnover among staff. It was a depressing, gross, and sometimes scary work environment.
When the library moved to a new location, it hired a new director who DID enforce patron conduct rules and hired ample security staff to police the place. The atmosphere improved noticeably.
Fortunately the Library where my wife works is less hands off than that.
Porn is blocked as is gambling and some other types of sites. If someone hacks their way around the block she has a switch at her desk so she can turn off any given computer. Porn is not protected speech. If someone is being disruptive, poses a health threat, uses language inappropriate around children, they can ask them to leave. If they refuse, they simply call the police. Usually the only people who get hostile are people who either are ticked off about fines, or who demand she do things she is not allowed to do "Tell me how to write my resume" "Find the best place to buy chicken for me" Some people get hostile and aggressive when they are told they cannot do those kinds of things and sometimes they have to be removed with assistance form police.
That kind of thing is pretty rare though.
The library is a pretty decent cross section of our society. If you want to know what the world is really like outside you echo chamber, hanging out at a library for a month is a reasonable start.
Unfortunately, it reveal that about a third of our population are complete A-holes. They are easy to identify, they usually plug "I pay your salary" into the conversation as early as possible. I always tell her if they say that, she should demand a raise, because she is not paid enough to deal with jerks.
Not withstanding that, she loves every aspect of the library. She loves books, children, people, service. She even loves doing budgets and selecting books and movies to order. She loves putting together events. the only part that is unpleasant is dealing with the A-holes on occasion, sometimes dealing with City officials, and sometimes dealing with co-workers trying to shirk their duties (that has cleared up mostly since the City took over the library from the County - removing the union influence in this case was a huge plus for the workers).
Libraries are essentially outdated book warehouses. They are used mainly by elderly people and with the proliferation of online research sources and e-books there will come a time where libraries get shuttered.
I have not set foot in a library in over 25 years but if the attendance validates the existence of one then sure keep it open for the public. However once the attendance drops off to levels of "more employees in the place than patrons" then it is time to close up shop!
Well, since you haven't set foot in one for 25 years, you wouldn't know what they are.
A public library is just that, for the public. If you want your local library to be different, than you need to sit on a board to address it.
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