Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Aren't yeshiva schools pretty much self contained and focus on the Talmud, which, to my understanding, is primarily taught by rote memorization?
The other thing, and only the parent can answer this, is his son behind across the board at home. My first thought, especially with that particular population, was cognitive disabilities.
Talmud is not taught by rote memorization. It is an enormous legal tome, and the study of it requires logic. The curriculum in these schools, taught in Yiddish, consists of learning the Old Testament in Hebrew, and then the Talmud, which is in Aramaic, with commentary. Essentially, from the age of 11 or so, these kids are going to law school. They must learn the entire enormous body of law, with commentaries from various commentators arguing with each other over the meaning of the law, over many centuries. It requires enormous powers of memory, but not solely memorization. Rather, one must remember legal precedents, and apply complex principles of law, bringing together the text and the commentaries.
This is why many young Modern Orthodox men, who were brought up with both excellent secular education AND the study of Talmud, do so well in law school - because they've already had thousands of hours of legal education before they ever begin law school.
That being said, secular education is sorely neglected in many ultra-Orthodox schools, especially for the boys (the girls do not study Talmud). The religious vote as a bloc, so it's political suicide to oppose them. And only those who try to leave the ultra-Orthodox sects, which function in every way as religious cults, realize how thoroughly unequipped for the outside world they are.
It's not just ultra-Orthodox yeshivot that are guilty of this. You will find this in many religious private schools of all religions, and certainly in the many children whose right to an education has been stolen from them by "home-schooling" parents who don't give their children an education equivalent to that of the public school system.
So the point is not the ultra-Orthodox yeshivot's lack of compliance with educational standards. The problem is that we as a nation have dropped the ball on ensuring and enforcing an appropriate education for EVERY child in the US, whether in public, private, or home-school.
Hang on, he waited until the kid was in 5th grade to say something? Why isn't he speaking English with his son at home? It doesn't seem to be a boarding school.
Hang on, he waited until the kid was in 5th grade to say something? Why isn't he speaking English with his son at home? It doesn't seem to be a boarding school.
Roughly half the residents do not speak English at home. Yiddish is the main language spoken.
I worked for a company owned by a Hasidic engineer who was born in Brooklyn and did not learn English until he was 18 years old. He spoke with an accent. He is younger than I am (which is 60). His parents were immigrants who were in the concentration camps.
His son worked there also. He had three children, and the son's son was learning English in first grade at his yeshiva. Yiddish was spoken at home. It was not uncommon to hear children in the neighborhood speaking Yiddish. They likely would not learn English until they went to school.
Interestingly enough, I now work for Muslims who learned English as children in Pakistan.
Back to the situation in the OP, I think we need to know if other children are equally behind in English or if it's just this one student.
There have been quite a few articles and reports about this issue in NYC-based media. IIRC, these schools take state and federal funding without providing adequate secular education. I recall one article that interviewed some older teens who state they didn’t learn enough to make it in the “outside” world.
I thought Yeshiva studies typically start post-bar mitzvah age? And that it was typical for these boys to focus on Torah and Talmud. Though I agree it's an issue, in the same way I find certain evangelical and homeschooling educations concerning, why is the father surprised?
Aren't yeshiva schools pretty much self contained and focus on the Talmud, which, to my understanding, is primarily taught by rote memorization?
Yes. Therefore this is a unique situation/problem, limited to a very small segment of the population - and entirely intentional, at least until the children reach a certain age.
Source: I am Jewish (not Orthodox). My late grandfather was also a Yeshiva College graduate and professor, but the colleges are obviously a different story.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
