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Not necessarily arguing, but playing devils advocate here.
1) A confession often is used to get the death penalty taken off the table
2) What is Incontrovertible today.. May not be tomorrow. Think hair analysis, which we're finding in the past was no better than junk science. There's reports now that bite mark analysis, which has been used to convict many people.. Many times it's made up.
3) I agree eyewitness testimony is totally flawed. Almost to the point that i'd say that couldn't be relied upon at all.
I believe that the death penalty should be RARELY sought for ordinary murder and should only be available after meeting a higher standard of proof, namely (at minimum) when two of the following three requirements are met:
1. An uncoerced confession from a lucid individual,
2. Incontrovertible physical evidence,
3. Eyewitness testimony from an individual who is NOT a stranger, as such testimony is often horribly flawed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18
Not necessarily arguing, but playing devils advocate here.
1) A confession often is used to get the death penalty taken off the table
2) What is Incontrovertible today.. May not be tomorrow. Think hair analysis, which we're finding in the past was no better than junk science. There's reports now that bite mark analysis, which has been used to convict many people.. Many times it's made up.
3) I agree eyewitness testimony is totally flawed. Almost to the point that i'd say that couldn't be relied upon at all.
Maybe you misstated this, but many people have been proven innocent due to DNA< meaning they were put in prison and proven innocent after the fact. Read through the Innocence Project for some good stories.
I know nothing about this case, but there have been convicted murderers exonerated due to DNA testing.
Its great that many people have been cleared due to DNA testing, but what Im concerned with...how is the system punished or penalized for this grave error? I cannot ever recall a prosecutor apologizing for convicting an innocent person (that is about the least they should be doing)!!!
I think what should maybe happen if a person is proven to have been falsely convicted, name cleared with DNA, ALL the other convictions of that prosecutor should then be erased and the people set free automatically, they should also be stripped of their bar license, so they can never practice law again.
Its great that many people have been cleared due to DNA testing, but what Im concerned with...how is the system punished or penalized for this grave error? I cannot ever recall a prosecutor apologizing for convicting an innocent person (that is about the least they should be doing)!!!
I think what should maybe happen if a person is proven to have been falsely convicted, name cleared with DNA, ALL the other convictions of that prosecutor should then be erased and the people set free automatically, they should also be stripped of their bar license, so they can never practice law again.
You have hit on a huge problem with the way our justice system currently operates. Prosecutors are rewarded for convictions, not for finding out the truth. There is a huge incentive to get the conviction no matter the cost, and bury evidence which threatens the case, because prosecuting the wrong guy looks really bad on a DA's resume. Then there's the travesty of the plea bargain, in which naive, often innocent people are essentially coerced into admitting guilt by being convinced that just serving the year or three will be easier on them than exercising their right to a jury trial.
It's a terrible mess. It baffles me that anyone can have faith that such a system actually achieves anything resembling justice.
I never understand why DNA isn't tested on request. I'm guessing this group signing the petition would be MORE than happy to pay the couple hundred dollars it would likely take to run the test.
It must be so frustrating to work with the Innocence Project and have courts deny testing when they have intact DNA evidence. Makes me crazy.
When DNA demonstrates a false conviction, it makes powerful people and institutions look bad. A lot of those people and those than run those institutions are more concerned with their public image than in assuring that a potentially innocent person is not killed by the state.
That's why, in so many cases, they fight tooth and nail to oppose DNA testing.
Of course, that's amoral as hell. But such are the priorities of some people.
This has always been a pet peeve of mine. Since DNA has been made available in the states from 1987 onwards, I could not rightfully convict a person (if I sat on the jury) without the DNA evidence.
DNA is not a part of every case!
This case should have had plenty though.
If someone is shot and killed from a moving car while standing on a street corner there would be no DNA evidence linking the two. Wipe down the gun and toss it into a river and then there would be no DNA between the shooter and the weapon.
I am all for testing DNA in cases where it wasn’t previously available, but in cases where the convicted have been executed, the persons requesting testing should have to waive any monetary awards later on, unless it can be proven that the police or DAs had GROSSLY railroaded the individual. Hopefully those cases could have been dealt with without resorting to DNA in the first place.
When DNA demonstrates a false conviction, it makes powerful people and institutions look bad. A lot of those people and those than run those institutions are more concerned with their public image than in assuring that a potentially innocent person is not killed by the state.
That's why, in so many cases, they fight tooth and nail to oppose DNA testing.
Of course, that's amoral as hell. But such are the priorities of some people.
Well, their 'public image' takes a terrible hit when prosecutors refuse to acknowledge they convicted the wrong person though?!!
As a adult who votes, when I saw a local case couple years back, when a guy was cleared thru this kind of testing and yet the county DA STILL refused to recognize this and insisted he was guilty, my opinion of him went WAY down, and of course, I didnt vote for him in the next election.
Someone who was executed, and yes, I was not clear on that.
People being found innocent after DNA testing happens damn near every day. Death Row prisoners being exonerated.. Less frequently, but it still happens.
And, of course, there have been cases where someone executed has been proven innocent from the distant past. There have been cases where any reasonable person would say there was enough doubt to prevent someone from being executed.
But, there has not been that case since.. The 70's.. Of someone conclusively proven to be innocent after having been executed.
The case someone else mentioned was back in 2006 where Virginia tested the DNA of Roger Keith Coleman, who had proclaimed his innocence.. DNA came back as a match.
That was a foot in the ass of his supporters and the people who jumped on his bandwagon.
I support the death penalty, but.. One innocent person executed is too many. That simply cannot happen. It's not a matter of "well, we get it right 99% of the time".. It's got to be right 100% of the time. If that means it's only used in 'slam dunk' cases.. So be it.
I remember the first case mentioned (Cameron Todd Willingham) very well. It was big news where I live. I will also add that DNA evidence is usually destroyed after a person is executed, so it is usually impossible to test after the fact. So there may very well be many more innocent people executed, but we have no way to find out.
There is an old saying that goes "its better for all the truly guilty people in prison to be set free, than for one innocent person to be executed unjustly'...that sounds about right to me, but I guess thats not the way most people see it! (considering its happened numerous times and the justice system remains the same).
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