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Status:
"This too shall pass. But possibly, like a kidney stone."
(set 11 days ago)
35,994 posts, read 18,280,610 times
Reputation: 51062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaTwo
This is true also. I’m first reading the rest of the comments here. Even if fingers only she was assaulted and he shouldn’t have done anything. But then again it looks like the arguments being made from his side was that since she was drunk it was open season and he’s not responsible for anything and he was drunk too apparently.
We don’t want to back to that.
I don't think there's a single person in this thread saying that.
And yes, on your post just above this, it does seem that not everyone in this conversation is looking at the same set of facts, and is comparing this case to a case where a woman is drugged and unconscious, or where there's any evidence that this was purposeful on his part to be having sexual behaviors with a woman who then passed out in the middle of the whole thing. He himself was drunker than she was (which is saying something, actually, she was very drunk herself) and likely to not have noticed, if, in fact, she was passed out.
If we're not all looking at the same facts, that's where disagreements about what should happen to the accused come in.
Someone can't consent when passed out. It's as simple as that. That said, there may be some borderline situations where the other party might still get the benefit of the doubt. If Brock had been in an ongoing sexual relationship with her, if they'd gone to bed together, if she'd taken off her clothing, etc. before passing out, I might think, yeah, he could have reasonably misjudged the situation, especially if he was drunk himself. But there's nothing about drunk stranger girl passed out outdoors that suggests an invitation...unless you're a sexual predator.
I feel very ambivalent. I think we're on a VERY slippery slope when we make men criminally responsible for bad decisions women make. When one of the partners in a sex act passes out because he/she has knowingly gotten him/herself drunk, the other partner in the sex act should not suddenly become a felon. And that's what happened here, in my opinion.
Men also make horrible decisions they greatly regret when they are drunk. This is such a common story. A man goes into a strip bar (or a hotel bar, on a business trip), gets completely loaded and then later greatly regrets a sex act with a sex worker that he may or may not have had. He has vague memories of a possible sex act, and symptoms of an STD. And now he has to go home to his wife or girlfriend and he doesn't know what to do - tell her, or don't tell her? And in that case, no one - no one - has any empathy for the man's position although it's the exact same position, in mirror reverse, of this woman's position. Minus, of course, the two bicyclists riding by and witnessing what happened and rescuing her in the most humiliating position she's maybe ever been in.
In my opinion, what happened to her was a "teachable moment" as they say, and not a crime on anyone's part. She passed out during a sex act and he didn't notice. It was not a shining hour for either of them, how terribly vulgar, but we have decided to infanticize women and decide they can't consent to getting themselves drunk and consent to drunk sex.
That's your opinion, not fact.
I've never been in this situation.
I honestly don't consider it not too difficult as a guy to not be in this situation.
Status:
"This too shall pass. But possibly, like a kidney stone."
(set 11 days ago)
35,994 posts, read 18,280,610 times
Reputation: 51062
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth
That's your opinion, not fact.
I've never been in this situation.
I honestly don't consider it not too difficult as a guy to not be in this situation.
That's why I said "In my opinion".
One thing that seems clear, he didn't carry her out there. She walked on her own, and was conscious. And like many people who are very drunk, once they lay down for a minute or two, they pass out.
And it seems to me that's exactly what happened. In my opinion.
I don't think there's a single person in this thread saying that.
And yes, on your post just above this, it does seem that not everyone in this conversation is looking at the same set of facts, and is comparing this case to a case where a woman is drugged and unconscious, or where there's any evidence that this was purposeful on his part to be having sexual behaviors with a woman who then passed out in the middle of the whole thing. He himself was drunker than she was (which is saying something, actually, she was very drunk herself) and likely to not have noticed, if, in fact, she was passed out.
If we're not all looking at the same facts, that's where disagreements about what should happen to the accused come in.
If he was drunker than she was, how was it that she was the one blacked out, and he's the one rutting on her?
Why do you resort to personal attacks when the narrative doesn't align with yours?
Quote:
ClaraC - you don't understand why we disagree but what is the difference btw being passed out and raped and under anesthisia and raped?
The difference is this is not a doctor/patient relationship. The difference is they were both drunk. Yet, somehow, alcohol renders her unable to consent and not responsible for her actions while making him completely sober and responsible, not just for his actions but for her safety.
You also have to establish intent for rape. You have to establish that HE was able to discern HER level of inebriation. No one actually has. He was only a few points behind her on the BAL, and that was AFTER he was arrested and tested. That means he was MORE drunk when they met and ended up on the ground next to an OPEN BASKETBALL COURT.
Quote:
One deserves it for beomg a woman who parties?
It's unfortunate that you don't know the difference between saying someone deserved to be rape and saying it wasn't rape. Not being raped is a GOOD thing. But the idea that she wasn't really upsets some of you. Bizarro.
If he was drunker than she was, how was it that she was the one blacked out, and he's the one rutting on her?
Because drugs affect different people in different ways. Have you read any of the testimony by the experts on this matter? Anything beyond 10 second sound bites in the news?
Oh I don't know....The idea that both women were unconscious and not able to consent or "play along" would constitute a rape in my book. And how would a conscious guy not know that his victim is not passed out? Give me a break.
How is a drunk woman unable to consent and a drunk man completely able to make sober decisions and observations?
Interesting article here by Wikipedia that lays everything out in a good timeline manner. He definitely paid a high price for this assault and lost everything. He’s banned from Stanford campus for life , and lost his swimming scholarship, in addition he also lost a possible position on the 2016 Olympic swim team as he was no longer eligible due to the sexual assault charges. He had to move back to his small town and live with his parents who’ve been being harassed since he moved back home. Also prosecutors dropped the first two rape counts, so only assault was left, since no intercourse took place. I find this interesting as well. So a guy could stick his arm up there to the elbow and it’s not rape because it wasn’t his genitalia inside the woman. Is this correct?
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