From Iowa - Dallas or Minnesota for law school? (Austin: school rankings, university)

[nrogers1122]

Originally Posted by Private Eyes

Here's what I find interesting:


1. I assume that you joined the military at the age of 17 (with parental consent). 17 + 7 + 8 = Age 32 at the bare minimum. How can you possibly be 28?

2. Insurance defense / PI Firm = Jim Adler type law. Good luck taking on 63k in debt yearly to make 40K a year. Not to mention this field is oversaturated, just open up a yellow book.

3. You mention that you will compete for jobs 3 years after law school. Flawless logic except for the fact that you will be competing for 1L internships next year. Then for summer associate positions 2L. 3L? LOL. GLHF.

4. USNWR? Surely schools would not selectively report their salaries to make their school seem better.

5. There are many BIG 4 CPA qualified law students still floundering around for jobs. I think the numerous Big 4 Exp + CPA jobless candidates are just signs that your P&C exp is barely a soft.

Listen to GMOH and the people who are telling you the honest truth. Regional schools like SMU will place better in their respective region. T-10 schools and up prestige is rapidly fading, and as such, I doubt UMN's ability to place on a national scale in this economy.

The honest truth is this: Law school sucks unless its free OR its a T10 or better. EVERYBODY plans to be in the top 10%, and obviously, that is not possible. You mentioned that UMN alumni tell you that it is a great school. Think about this : How many alumnis of their OWN law school will degrade it publicly, and in turn, themselves for attending? Its like me driving a brand new 350Z and telling everybody it is horrible.

Yes, I understand that law school & the law job market sucks. If it were easy, everyone would do it. I'm not doing it because I feel its easy money (I don't); I'm doing it because I want to be a lawyer.

1. National Guard (LRS unit = a little more than the typical 1 wkd/mo, but still able to keep a FT job). 17+3 (got into insurance @ 20) + 7 = 27. Once you add in the decimals it becomes 28. Deployment overlaps @ ages 22-23.

2. Yes, the field is oversaturated. ID and PI is not all Jim Adler type law. ID retains some medium sized law firms (50+ lawyers). Certainly not $40k per year. Also, ID lawyers get paid hourly in most cases.

3. Yes. Your point? Difficult, but certainly not impossible. By the way, what does GHLF mean? I don't speak teenager.

4. I get that there is a big skeptisism. Is there any evidence? Its reminds me of those people who say that insurance companies are just out to screw people. I work as an adjuster and I can tell you that's not true, but in some peoples minds that doesn't matter.

Maybe it is inflated. If it were, why wouldn't every school inflate their numbers? Drake's figure ($60k ish at the median) seems to be pretty accurate based upon the numerous Drake grads that I know, and its around 60k median.

I'm not fooled by the terminology of median vs. mean. While they don't report on mean or standard deviation, they do report the percentage of responding graduates. Usually its at least a majority if not more, and the law of large numbers states that the bigger the sample, the less likely marginal response will change the numbers. In most cases, the mean and median aren't too far off. Presuming that all who don't respond aren't employed or would negatively skew the numbers (again, only a hypothesis), the comparison still provides an index to compare among schools and can be used as a barometer, even if innacurate. This assumes that the innacuracy is relatively uniform across the board.

5. Flawless logic, except for the fact that Accounting is not insurance. They have different demands, different standards, and mostly different sectors.

I probably won't be looking to place outside of the region at UMN, therefore I'm not really too concerned about national placement. Should a national placement type opportunity become available, I would consider it. However, national placement is not my primary goal.

Good point about self-inflation. My point with the commentary is that what I hear from UMNers tends to be more optomistic and upbeat than most other schools' alum.

Obviously not everyone who goes to law school gets to be a lawyer. However, is this true for MOST people, or do MOST law grads get to become lawyers? What is the defining characteristic (aside from and even the driving force behind grades) that determines who gets to be a lawyer and who gets to ask "paper or plastic"? Is it the school, the area, the rationale for going to school, the amount & quality of networking, etc.? Is it entirely random? I would think there would be some path to take to increase your likelihood of success. To that end, I will again appreciate any links pretaining to how to make the most of this opportunity.

[Bhaalspawn]

N Rogers, thank you for the kind words and good luck. I hope that you and your wife will continue to think deeply about these issues and that you'll conduct further research on your own. It's not too late to turn back if you want to. You might even consider visiting some local law schools and talking to whatever students are around for the summer to see what they think. Knowing what they know now, would they enroll again? Ask them how last semester's 3Ls fared. Is there an atmosphere of mortal terror on the campus?

[Bhaalspawn]

Here's a new article that may be of interest. It's about students continuing to enroll in law school in spite of the lack of jobs in the field:

Hope drives rise in law school applications

[isjkk2]

You made the right choice! Enjoy Law school and MN!

[gshepun]

Minnesota Law is one of the best law schools in the country (top 20). You would be making a huge mistake going to some school in TX (unles it is U of TX) instead of Minnesota, if you got in there. Getting into U of MN is difficult, median LSAT being 167, median GPA around 3.7.

[gshepun]

I wanted to go to Minnesota Law real bad, but didn't get in.

[gshepun]

Minnesota Law is one of the very best law schools around. Library collection - top 7, one of the most productive faculty, placement - almost 90% placed by graduation, ranked among the top 20 law schools in every ranking since they started ranking law schools (US News, Brennan, etc.), beautiful campus, nice people, famous alumni (e.g., Walter Mondale, several US Supreme Court Justices), etc. What more can you ask for?! If you can get in, which is not easy, there's no better law school in the region, very few better ones in the country.

[hamiltonpl]

As a lawyer in Dallas, a Minnesota Law degree means nothing to me. I'm sure its a fine school. Just graduate in the top part of your class and you will be fine. But that diploma really isn't worth any more than SMU in Texas. A lot of people will pump sunshine for you in trying to get you to go to that school -- but don't fall for the "more prestigious" thing. When you are young lawyer, firms have to sell your resume. Saying U of Minnesota ain't gonna impress any Texan client. Only Ivy Leagues will impress by name. Saying top ten percent will always impress.

[SMS_Parent]

This is an old thread. The OP decided to enroll at Minnesota based on family connections in the region. He is probably well into his 1L year at this point. In general most of the Texas lawyers on this thread agreed that if you want to work in Dallas, SMU is a better choice, but given the OP's desire to stay in the midwest, his decision to go to Minnesota was a reasonable decision.

[getmeoutofhere]

Originally Posted by gshepun

Minnesota Law is one of the best law schools in the country (top 20). You would be making a huge mistake going to some school in TX (unles it is U of TX) instead of Minnesota, if you got in there. Getting into U of MN is difficult, median LSAT being 167, median GPA around 3.7.

I know this is an old thread, but for anyone who is reading it, none of this is accurate.