Why does DART build rail at grade?

[TowerGuy]

Originally Posted by Gamarabi

I agree with you on this one, Victory has been developed exceptionally well, as well as Cityplace and Mockingbird. (Which can arguably be contributed to seperation of grade making rail more pedestrian friendly.) Brick Row I admit is a nice TOD. But I suppose it is not exactly the type of TOD I had in mind. Take Brick Rows design for example, it is only 4 stories high for the most part and although it contains tree lined sidewalks the structures encompss fairly large blocks.

Main thing I am arguing against are these developments that although they are TOD are not really THAT space efficient, to be honest I would prefer to see some condos or apartment units similar to those that developed around Uptown and Victory, (12+ story buildings) while maintaining mixed used medium density (retail no more 6 stories high) commercial retail and office (Considering out of CBD no more than 24 stories or so) connected to it. You could fit a development like Brick Row into a fourth of the space and use the remainder of the space to add more development or just green space.

If you look at a satelite photo of Dallas there is quite a bit of green areas from houses covered in trees. I would prefer to try and maintain that green apperance as much as possible while maximizing density in concentrated areas.

Give me your thoughts on this when you can.

I completely agree. I do like them for what they are but in the future I would definitely like to see better utilization of space.

[dfwcre8tive]

DART functions more like a suburban rail system rather than a high density city metro system. Most of the stations are surrounded by huge commuter parking lots, which could eventually be converted to adjacent development. The key to any transit system in DFW is making seamless connections between different modes of transportation (car, bus, bike, pedestrian). Luckily, the DCTA A-Train will directly connect to DART; stations at the airports will need fast connections.

For the City of Dallas itself, an expanded streetcar system will do a lot to increase density and walkability (much like it has done in Uptown). MATA has begun extending into downtown and installing a new turntable at Cityplace Station.

[TowerGuy]

Originally Posted by dfwcre8tive

DART functions more like a suburban rail system rather than a high density city metro system. Most of the stations are surrounded by huge commuter parking lots, which could eventually be converted to adjacent development. The key to any transit system in DFW is making seamless connections between different modes of transportation (car, bus, bike, pedestrian). Luckily, the DCTA A-Train will directly connect to DART; stations at the airports will need fast connections.

For the City of Dallas itself, an expanded streetcar system will do a lot to increase density and walkability (much like it has done in Uptown). MATA has begun extending into downtown and installing a new turntable at Cityplace Station.

I'd say it is a combination of both. DART has to stay committed to providing rail to these long time member cities before more focus can be given to the urban core. It is the right thing to do in order to keep the member cities happy. DART was correct in focusing expansion projects in suburbia. Otherwise they would have heard a lot more of, "DART only cares about Dallas", "Dallas hogs DART", "DART is being unfair". I am with you in looking forward beyond 2014 when this present major expansion is complete. I am eager to see development devour those stations and eventually, in time, more focus on rail within the boundaries of 635.

[pappy97]

Originally Posted by dfwcre8tive

DART functions more like a suburban rail system rather than a high density city metro system. Most of the stations are surrounded by huge commuter parking lots, which could eventually be converted to adjacent development. The key to any transit system in DFW is making seamless connections between different modes of transportation (car, bus, bike, pedestrian). Luckily, the DCTA A-Train will directly connect to DART; stations at the airports will need fast connections.

For the City of Dallas itself, an expanded streetcar system will do a lot to increase density and walkability (much like it has done in Uptown). MATA has begun extending into downtown and installing a new turntable at Cityplace Station.

That's why (At least one reason) it makes no sense to me that there are no plans whatsoever for a line that runs along the Dallas North Tollway. I mean, are DART and NTTA in bed with each other?

In other metros you don't see transportation outfits holding back one another because it might mean less tolls (i.e., in the SF Bay Area, CalTrans did not oppose Bart crossing the bay because it would mean less tolls collected on the Bay Bridge).

Once you have the cotton belt line open there will be a east-west connection that connects the green and red lines north of Dallas, but there still won't be a line along the DNT to give those in Frisco the option of avoiding the DNT and its hassles in exchange for a light rail commute.

[dfwcre8tive]

Originally Posted by pappy97

That's why (At least one reason) it makes no sense to me that there are no plans whatsoever for a line that runs along the Dallas North Tollway. I mean, are DART and NTTA in bed with each other?

In other metros you don't see transportation outfits holding back one another because it might mean less tolls (i.e., in the SF Bay Area, CalTrans did not oppose Bart crossing the bay because it would mean less tolls collected on the Bay Bridge).

Once you have the cotton belt line open there will be a east-west connection that connects the green and red lines north of Dallas, but there still won't be a line along the DNT to give those in Frisco the option of avoiding the DNT and its hassles in exchange for a light rail commute.

Frisco will probably get commuter rail line rather than light rail, which will have higher speeds and shorter times to downtown Dallas. Of course, they would have to join DCTA, DART or another transit agency first.

http://www.nctcog.dst.tx.us/trans/tr...risco_Line.pdf

The problem with the DNT corridor is that there's not any room for an affordable rail line south of 635. The best location would be a tunnel under Preston Road, but that would be very expensive. TXDoT should have required the new 635 construction to save space for a future E-W rail line.

[TowerGuy]

Originally Posted by pappy97

That's why (At least one reason) it makes no sense to me that there are no plans whatsoever for a line that runs along the Dallas North Tollway. I mean, are DART and NTTA in bed with each other?

In other metros you don't see transportation outfits holding back one another because it might mean less tolls (i.e., in the SF Bay Area, CalTrans did not oppose Bart crossing the bay because it would mean less tolls collected on the Bay Bridge).

Once you have the cotton belt line open there will be a east-west connection that connects the green and red lines north of Dallas, but there still won't be a line along the DNT to give those in Frisco the option of avoiding the DNT and its hassles in exchange for a light rail commute.

In both of our DREAMS. A very good, very intelligent dream. Under and Over Preston would be best. That would be awesome! I don't think these different agencies are in bed with the NTTA as much as I think that NTTA has its boot on their necks. Tolls, tolls everywhere, no change to spare.

[rantanamo]

A line under Preston was studied for a while and the notion rejected by those districts. More credit needs to be given to DART. Pretty much any idea you might have about where they need to be, they've likely studied. East-West along LBJ, East-West along I-30. Under Preston. East-West under NW Hwy. Direct line to Love Field. All studied. The problem is people perceive public transit as poor and a waste of money, vs completely gutting and rebuilding LBJ,-I-35E, The Mixmaster and I-30 which will cost billions and billions.

[mm4]

The recent Hudson-Bergen Light Rail runs at grade through some of the densest office and apartment landscape in the NYC metropolitan region (in this case the western shore of the Hudson across from lower Manhattan). Some farflung blocks are served underground by PATH. The tallest structures (at an avg. 60 stories) were built after the surface rail came online. This is a new Trump building on the right.

The cars are Kinkisharyo low-floors level with the boarding platform, rather than having to climb up into (what DART is working toward).

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by mm4

The recent Hudson-Bergen Light Rail runs at grade through some of the densest office and apartment landscape in the NYC metropolitan region (in this case the western shore of the Hudson across from lower Manhattan). Some farflung blocks are served underground by PATH. The tallest structures (at an avg. 60 stories) were built after the surface rail came online. This is a new Trump building on the right.

The cars are Kinkisharyo low-floors level with the boarding platform, rather than having to climb up into (what DART is working toward).

The developments you see today are mostly phase 1 of larger scale projects. About 40% of the area along the HBLRT system is developed around. About 50% will be developed over the next decade. The Hudson Bergen will be extended another 10 miles North form North Bergen to Tenafly with the hopes to eventually extend all the way up to Tappan,NY along a lightly used Freight Corridor. North Bergen / Tonnelle Avenue will become a JCT for NJ's future Urban Light Rail network , 2 more lines will go South along US 1/9 and Cross Bergen / Passaic Counties. By 2030 NJT will have Light Rail running through all the states cities and along the Dense Suburban corridors. Unlike DART , NJT shoves its Light Rail down the dense corridors of that town or city and not on the outskirts. The Projected 2030 Ridership of the state wide Light Rail system is about what the states bus usage is today , which is 800,000+. Light Rail in this state will also act like a connector between the Many region rail lines. Most of the Light Rail planned or proposed is being built on old Freight corridors. We use Diesel light rail like your A-Train in lower populated corridors and Electric light rail on more populated corridors.

PATH & NJ Light Rail Extensions - Google Maps

I might as well give a tour of my states largest LRT system and growing.

Back in 2000 this is What Essex Street looked like...it was barely built on just some older buildings...



This what it looks like today , all but 2 slots are taken up. The Developments completly fill out this section of Jersey City.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjpX8MoKxV0

Marin Boulevard / Jersey Ave back in 2000 , was a brownfield



Marin Boulevard Today is surrounded by Liberty Harbor North phase one , which is a dense apartment / condo development. Phase 2 of Liberty Harbor North begins next year and will surround Marin Boulevard / Jersey Avenue stations to the South.





Harimus Cove back in 2000 - no high rises , only a few stores surrounded the station



Harimus Cove today is surrounded by High Rises , Condos and a Future Art District under renovation.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQFeImT3qbA

9th / Congress back in 2004 , was a wasteland back then.



9th / Congress today is surrounding by Hoboken infill.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdVm2TGmx4c

[PanTerra]

Originally Posted by AlGreen

texas rail sucks. light rail may be efficient at times, but it's not fun. i want to go fast!

atlanta may be "lagging", but thanks to the linear set-up of the city, using MARTA makes a lot more since even today than relying on DART does

For that there's Six Flags. Several rails from which to choose.