dallas or houston? i can't make up my mind! (Austin: neighborhood, high school)

[Overcooked_Oatmeal]

Dallas is nowhere near as diverse, international, or as cosmopolitan as Houston. There are still large segregated swaths of the city, unlike Houston. It's almost like a southern version of Detroit or St. Louis where the blacks are cordoned off to one segment of the city cut off from the rest of the area (the Trinity River would be Dallas' version of 8 Mile Road).

But I don't think the OP cares about all of that. I also recommend Waxahachie to meet the needs of the OP. Or Ft Worth.

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by Overcooked_Oatmeal

Dallas is nowhere near as diverse, international, or as cosmopolitan as Houston. There are still large segregated swaths of the city, unlike Houston. It's almost like a southern version of Detroit or St. Louis where the blacks are cordoned off to one segment of the city cut off from the rest of the area (the Trinity River would be Dallas' version of 8 Mile Road).

Its nowhere near like that. Dallas is more segregated than Houston, but there are lots of African Americans North of the Trinity. And while Dallas isnt as international or diverse as Houston, its still a very multicultural place.

[Dallas native]

Originally Posted by worldlyman

With some of this considered, it's hard to see how Dallas is more liberal.

Anecdotal evidence is one thing, but voting statistics are more scientific. Dallas County has voted less red than Harris County on a consistent basis. Both counties turned blue in 2008 and I'm sure that both cities voted to the left of their respective counties long before that, but I don't have time to dig for that information. Following is an analysis by the NY Times of TX counties examining the last 5 presidential elections. Note the margins for each county (percentages have been rounded up or down).

2008: Dallas County: 57% Dem., 42% Rep.; Dems won by 16% margin
Harris County: 51% Dem., 49% Rep.; Dems won by 2% margin

2004: Dallas County: 49% Dem., 50% Rep.; Reps won by 1% margin
Harris County: 45% Dem., 55% Rep.; Reps won by 10% margin

2000: Dallas County: 45% Dem., 53% Rep.; Reps won by 8% margin
Harris County: 43% Dem., 54% Rep.; Reps won by 11% margin

1996: Dallas County: 46% Dem., 47% Rep.; Reps won by 1% margin
Harris County: 45% Dem., 49% Rep.; Reps won by 4% margin

1992: Dallas County: 35% Dem., 39% Rep.; Reps won by 4% margin
Harris County: 38% Dem., 43% Rep.; Reps won by 5% margin

Click on TX and then click on individual counties. It lets you compare 2008 vs. every presidential election since 1992:
President Map - Election Results 2008 - The New York Times

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

Matt, I guess you never heard of Ed Oakley who was in the run-off with Tom Leppert. Leppert won 58% to 42% - had Oakley won he would have been the first openly gay mayor of a major US city. Before Houston. Mayor Leppert's chief of staff, Chris Heinbaugh, is openly gay.

Dallas has had many openly gay city council members starting with Craig Holcomb back in the 1970s. There have been some on the school board as well as the current board president, Adam Medrano. Gay county judge, Jim Foster, lesbian and Latina county sherriff Lupe Valdez, gay county clerk Gary Fitzsimmons...many more.

Also Dallas has had three Jewish Democrat female mayors in the last 30 years. Democrat African-American Mayor Ron Kirk (who lives in Lakewood!) is now working in the Obama administration. He was sitting right behind him in the recent Kennedy Center Honors.

Ron Kirk seems like too respectable of a fellow to be working in that administration.

[Metro Matt]

[quote=DFWMike;17012157]

Originally Posted by Scarface713

Yep, because Houston is actually less religious overall than DFW. Not by much though, but Houston is just behind the Austin area in the list of least religious metro areas in Texas.

As far as the orderly layout in DFW, I agree, but to an extent. This zoning thing is really overrated. I honestly don't notice that big of a difference, once I'm off of the freeways in DFW, between Dallas and Houston, or their different suburbs. DFW does look "quieter" I guess, while Houston seems to be more vibrant and alive, in my opinion.


Hmmm, you are indeed right to an extent on zoning. I'm not going to get into a Houston versus Dallas war because thats just silly. The two are too much alike, I don't buy the more vibrant tag though. The zoning layout is pretty factual. I do admit if you're in Clear Lake or Northwest Houston, you wouldn't notice much of a difference. But there are large tracts of Houston that seem almost rural in the way they are laid out and it just seems much dirtier which is not just perception. Sometimes when you're from a place it is hard to look at the downsides and admit they're just that. And I grew up in the Houston area and have driven large portions of the city for my job.

On the flipside, you could call DFW more cookie cutter and we would have to own that as well.

Clear Lake maybe, but Northwest Houston is clearly zoning free.

I used to live off of 1960 which looks like a mini Westheimer.

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by Dallas native

Anecdotal evidence is one thing, but voting statistics are more scientific. Dallas County has voted less red than Harris County on a consistent basis. Both counties turned blue in 2008 and I'm sure that both cities voted to the left of their respective counties long before that, but I don't have time to dig for that information. Following is an analysis by the NY Times of TX counties examining the last 5 presidential elections. Note the margins for each county (percentages have been rounded up or down).

2008: Dallas County: 57% Dem., 42% Rep.; Dems won by 16% margin
Harris County: 51% Dem., 49% Rep.; Dems won by 2% margin

2004: Dallas County: 49% Dem., 50% Rep.; Reps won by 1% margin
Harris County: 45% Dem., 55% Rep.; Reps won by 10% margin

2000: Dallas County: 45% Dem., 53% Rep.; Reps won by 8% margin
Harris County: 43% Dem., 54% Rep.; Reps won by 11% margin

1996: Dallas County: 46% Dem., 47% Rep.; Reps won by 1% margin
Harris County: 45% Dem., 49% Rep.; Reps won by 4% margin

1992: Dallas County: 35% Dem., 39% Rep.; Reps won by 4% margin
Harris County: 38% Dem., 43% Rep.; Reps won by 5% margin

Click on TX and then click on individual counties. It lets you compare 2008 vs. every presidential election since 1992:
President Map - Election Results 2008 - The New York Times

Nevermind the fact Harris County is about the same size as Dallas & Tarrant Counties combined.

[Dallas native]

Originally Posted by Overcooked_Oatmeal

Dallas is nowhere near as diverse, international, or as cosmopolitan as Houston. There are still large segregated swaths of the city, unlike Houston. It's almost like a southern version of Detroit or St. Louis where the blacks are cordoned off to one segment of the city cut off from the rest of the area (the Trinity River would be Dallas' version of 8 Mile Road).

The statistics do show a slant towards Southern Dallas for the African American population, but it's not as drastic as your comments suggest. I can't find all of the statistics for the same year, so we'll have to wait until the 2010 Census results come out to verify. But based on what I could cobble together, it appears that the AA population is split about 60/40 with 60% living south of I-30 and 40% living north of I-30.

By mid-2009, the Census estimated the population of Dallas to be 1.3 million. The total African American population in the City of Dallas was estimated by the 2000 Census to be about 26%. That percentage has probably stayed about the same or even declined a bit in the past 10 years as more AA's have moved to the suburbs. If it is still about 26% though, then that makes the total AA population of Dallas about 338,000 using the latest available population estimate.

This 2007 study http://www.west.senate.state.tx.us/pdf/ppt/TownHallSouthDallas0816.pdf (see pages 4 & 5) indicates that approximately 40% of the total population of Dallas is in Southern Dallas (defined as south of I-30). Of that population, approximately 38% were African American. If those percentages are still about the same, then that means that roughly 198,000 AA's live south of I-30 based on Dallas's population of 1.3 million. Subtracting those 198,000 people from Dallas' estimated AA population of 338,000 people leaves you with 140,000 African Americans who live north of I-30.

[Dallas native]

Originally Posted by Metro Matt

Nevermind the fact Harris County is about the same size as Dallas & Tarrant Counties combined.

WTF? That's why I was speaking in terms of percentages. Do you EVER think before you react to a perceived slight against Houston and just start typing? We get it. Houston better than Dallas according to you.

Yes, Harris County is roughly equal to Dallas County + Tarrant county in total area. Harris County contains an area of 1778 square miles. If you were to combine Dallas County with Tarrant County, then they would have a combined area of 1805 square miles. If you're talking about population, then Dallas + Tarrant would be just slightly larger than Harris County.

Harris County, Texas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dallas County, Texas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tarrant County, Texas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Lakewooder]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CENSUS_RACIAL_SEGREGATION?SITE=TXDAM&SECTION=HO ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (broken link) This story had some charts in the actual newspaper but I can't find them online. There was something showing Collin County as over 80% white while Dallas County was less than 60% white. So, OO should probably be looking at that. If you look at the school populations it's easy to see that not all the black people are segregated south of the Trinity. For instance, Lake Highlands High in Northeast Dallas is about 40% African-American.

[Overcooked_Oatmeal]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CENSUS_RACIAL_SEGREGATION?SITE=TXDAM&SECTION=HO ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (broken link) This story had some charts in the actual newspaper but I can't find them online. There was something showing Collin County as over 80% white while Dallas County was less than 60% white. So, OO should probably be looking at that. If you look at the school populations it's easy to see that not all the black people are segregated south of the Trinity. For instance, Lake Highlands High in Northeast Dallas is about 40% African-American.

I was sort of exaggerating as I usually do, but its closer to the truth than ya'll would care to admit. Yes, the Audelia-Skillman/NE Dallas area, and that area between NW Hwy and Walnut Hill east of the Central have large black populations, but that's more the exception rather than the rule in Dallas north of I-30/Trinity.

Oh, I noticed that according to the census data Mapping America — Census Bureau 2005-9 American Community Survey - NYTimes.com, Lakewood is hardly the picture of diversity that you like to paint/lie about (Census Tracts 8 and 1). Hell, there are parts of Collin County that are more diverse than that part of town -- clutch the pearls, I do declare!