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The Houston Press, like the Dallas Observer, is a Village Voice Media company. A lot of people assign significant weight to the city beat reporting in both papers.
9,000 people aren't riding Houston's red line. You are either incorrectly calculating the number's based on what the Houston Post reported or are taking that number out of context.
The actual number is ~35,000. The APTA, like Scarface mentioned is the place to go for ridership numbers. They are the advocacy group who monitors public transportation.
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Houston needs to go slow and get its rail transit right.
Cute.
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Interesting to look at a particular aerial pic a booster was throwing up yesterday, the one taken from west southwest that proudly shows TMC in the lower right and downtown in the center. You look beyond downtown and TMC and it's just..., well, not a lot of development density. What I'm saying is that when H's first short exhibition line is the dt/Rice/TMC/Reliant Stadium strip, it means that's as good as it's gonna get, but the ridership according to the local Houston Press is now averaging under 9,000/day after the one football game it was counting on left town. (But it sure would have been nice if that 7.5 mi. showpiece had been separated from the traffic lights. But there's no going back.)
Even worse for H is that all of its density is on circumferential loops rather than axial corridors. Worse still is none of Houston's options can take advantage of preexisting ROW to get to those pockets. So while DART can just run lines on old easements next to theirs all originating from the center of town, Houston is playing wack-a-mole (and with no surface access paths other than the middle of its urban streets).
I mean someday maybe DART can tunnel the half mile or so it needs to decongest its system at the confluence in dt D. But when the heavyweight line of H's system is the Main line and not its dt, what can it do about traffic lights?
The decline means something else too, that seemingly Houstonians regarded the exhibition as a novelty more as viable transport. There was never a novelty aspect to DART, so its usage translates into solid evolving utilitarian ridership on radial corridors like Stemmons and North Central distributed evenly with employment centers and housing.
You don't seem to understand Houston or anything along the lines. Nor do you seem to understand transportation. Don't you think the additional lines feeding into the single line will boast the system just like it did DART's? Do you think there is no land for development alongside METRO rail? Seriously?
9,000 people aren't riding Houston's red line. You are either incorrectly calculating the number's based on what the Houston Post reported or are taking that number out of context.
The Houston Post was absorbed into the Houston Chronicle in 1995. I quoted the Houston Press, which is a Village Voice Media alternative weekly that like its sisters (Dallas Observer, etc.) is a reputable paper for city hall reporting.
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The actual number is ~35,000. The APTA, like Scarface mentioned is the place to go for ridership numbers. They are the advocacy group who monitors public transportation.
The APTA has to get their numbers from somewhere too. To my knowledge they don't have staffers on-site inside Houston METRO.
After all, according to the Houston Press, Houston's well regarded and respected city hall reporting alternative weekly,
"Ridership numbers for the rail have steadily declined since the rail line first opened to huge crowds. During the first year, about 10 million people got on board, but over the past four years, according to Metro documents, rail has averaged between 2 and 3 million people each year. Bus service has also seen a sharp decline in ridership (see 'Life Lines')."
That's published late April 2010 too (almost May), nine months ago, for anybody who wants to update their numbers. The Press does say, too, that it's according to METRO documents.
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Don't you think the additional lines feeding into the single line will boast the system just like it did DART's? Do you think there is no land for development alongside METRO rail? Seriously?
I believe from the annual ridership numbers the Houston Press published that, divided by 365, the daily ridership of Houston's exhibition novelty line is no more than 9000.
I know for a fact that while there is developable land alongside METRO Main exhibition rail and unbuilt future lines, that because the city lacks old rail easements through population zones the system has the bigger problem of where to locate rail at all other than on the double yellow stripe in the middle of its streets. Currently unseparated by physical barriers with common flowing automobile traffic almost throughout the extent of its 7.5 mi. network.
LMAO. You still keep trying to use the Houston press. Why don't you go look up and see what the APTA is. Have no idea why you're clinging to the Houston Press.
The Houston Post was absorbed into the Houston Chronicle in 1995. I quoted the Houston Press, which is a Village Voice Media alternative weekly that like its sisters (Dallas Observer, etc.) is a reputable paper for city hall reporting.
The APTA has to get their numbers from somewhere too. To my knowledge they don't have staffers on-site inside Houston METRO.
After all, according to the Houston Press, Houston's well regarded and respected city hall reporting alternative weekly,
"Ridership numbers for the rail have steadily declined since the rail line first opened to huge crowds. During the first year, about 10 million people got on board, but over the past four years, according to Metro documents, rail has averaged between 2 and 3 million people each year. Bus service has also seen a sharp decline in ridership (see 'Life Lines')."
That's published late April 2010 too (almost May), nine months ago, for anybody who wants to update their numbers. The Press does say, too, that it's according to METRO documents.
I believe from the annual ridership numbers the Houston Press published that, divided by 365, the daily ridership of Houston's exhibition novelty line is no more than 9000.
I'm sorry but you are not understanding the numbers (confusing how they count ridership) or you are taking it out of context. In the determination of METRO's ~35,000 and DART's 70,000 figures they count each time you board.
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I know for a fact that while there is developable land alongside METRO Main exhibition rail and unbuilt future lines, that because the city lacks old rail easements through population zones the system has the bigger problem of where to locate rail at all other than on the double yellow stripe in the middle of its streets. Currently unseparated by physical barriers with common flowing automobile traffic almost throughout the extent of its 7.5 mi. network.
What are you talking about? You act like you are driving on the track but that isn't the case. For at least 75% of the track, you can't enter. Again, you are showing your ignorance of Houston.
No US city has the money to build an elevated or subway in their core, so LRT is a compromise. Sort of like DART compromising building its line in mostly abandoned freight corridors.
I'm sorry but you are not understanding the numbers (confusing how they count ridership) or you are taking it out of context. In the determination of METRO's ~35,000 and DART's 70,000 figures they count each time you board.
I think you meant to say that, in determining METRO's ~9000 and DART's roughly 70,000 figures, they count each time you board.
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No US city has the money to build an elevated or subway in their core, so LRT is a compromise.
Dallas may arrive at a decisive inflection point somewhere within the decade where they have no choice but to dig a tunnel in downtown or service growth will be stopped. It's already built massive amount of elevated track where it needs to (Park Lane area on the Red, south of Carrollton on the Green, the viaduct over the Trinity flood plain, etc.), and crossings at Mockingbord are submerged in tunnels at both 75 and Love Field, miles apart.)
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Sort of like DART compromising building its line in mostly abandoned freight corridors.
Abandoned freight corridors that are literally right through and next door to neighborhoods and major employment centers. No compromise at all. Dallas and surrounding communities really lucked out. A North Tollway configuration would be nice but you can't have everything (however something approximating an Addison approach can use more of that type of ROW to cut in sideways from Carrollton).
They're in better shape than Houston. They're off the streets save for downtown Dallas.
I think you meant to say that, in determining METRO's ~9000 and DART's roughly 70,000 figures, they count each time you board.
Actually no I didn't. Mirror back to me your understanding in how they count riders and what exactly it means when people say DART has a ridership of ~70,000.
The APTA gets their numbers from the Federal Transportation Agency.
Guess what the FTA's estimated ridership of METRO's new lines:
University Line: 32,000 (11.4 miles)
North Line: 17,400 (5.3 miles)
Southeast Line: 17,250 (6.5 miles)
I'm sorry dude but I don't know where you are getting 9,000, but it's incorrect.
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Dallas may arrive at a decisive inflection point somewhere within the decade where they have no choice but to dig a tunnel in downtown or service growth will be stopped. It's already built massive amount of elevated track where it needs to (Park Lane area on the Red, south of Carrollton on the Green, the viaduct over the Trinity flood plain, etc.), and crossings at Mockingbord are submerged in tunnels at both 75 and Love Field, miles apart.)
Abandoned freight corridors that are literally right through and next door to neighborhoods and major employment centers. No compromise at all. Dallas and surrounding communities really lucked out. A North Tollway configuration would be nice but you can't have everything (however something approximating an Addison approach can use more of that type of ROW to cut in sideways from Carrollton).
They're in better shape than Houston. They're off the streets save for downtown Dallas.
FTA estimated the Green Line's ~28 mile expansion to add ~30,000 riders. Perhaps some actual numbers have been posted since but looking at estimates of METRO vs DART light rail expansion, it would seem putting rail down streets is much better at getting people to ride rail than putting in abandoned freight corridor. Those numbers don't include the Uptown Line.
DART is a tragedy. Nobody uses it because it is so inaccessible. I've lived in Dallas for 3 years and have never had one occasion in which to use it. I have never known anyone who uses it. Whenever I see the train go by in downtown Dallas, all I ever see riding it is poor people. DART is counting on development being built along the lines in order to make it useful.
At least in Houston the rail will be going where the development already is. Houston will not be dependent on trumped up, convoluted development in order to justify the rail. The rail will be where the people already want to go. And the ridership numbers will always be better in Houston. Houston is connecting it's major employment centers. Dallas built rail for show, not practicality and the ridership numbers reflect that.
I'm glad Houston waited and watched Dallas build a completely useless system before building a better one. A few years from now, when Houston catches up to the number of rail miles that Dallas has now, it will be clear that Houston will have the better system.
Houston looked before it leaped and the citizens will inevitably be better served by mass transit in the future.
Seriously! When have the last time you have been in Dallas?
DART is a tragedy. Nobody uses it because it is so inaccessible. I've lived in Dallas for 3 years and have never had one occasion in which to use it. I have never known anyone who uses it. Whenever I see the train go by in downtown Dallas, all I ever see riding it is poor people. DART is counting on development being built along the lines in order to make it useful.
At least in Houston the rail will be going where the development already is. Houston will not be dependent on trumped up, convoluted development in order to justify the rail. The rail will be where the people already want to go. And the ridership numbers will always be better in Houston. Houston is connecting it's major employment centers. Dallas built rail for show, not practicality and the ridership numbers reflect that.
I'm glad Houston waited and watched Dallas build a completely useless system before building a better one. A few years from now, when Houston catches up to the number of rail miles that Dallas has now, it will be clear that Houston will have the better system.
Houston looked before it leaped and the citizens will inevitably be better served by mass transit in the future.
^ Hmmm (Rebel Rebel)....
New member, 3 posts (at the time of my reply), all 3 bashing Dallas.
Hello Houston-booster.
PS... This kind of insanity happens in the Dallas Forum all of the time.
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