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You're going to have to hunt and peck. Find a good local re site with MLS search capability that shows whether or not a property is HOA or not. As you find non-HOA listings, jot down the sub-div names and circle back to search in just those areas.
FWIW, if you are looking for a home built in the last 20 years in Collin Co/Tarrant Co, 99.5% are going to be in HOA neighborhoods. If you're willing to look at old homes (or at least consider them for scraping & building), your chances are better.
If you're willing to look at old homes (or at least consider them for scraping & building), your chances are better.
Thank you! Yes, that's one option we're considering. From what I learned here (//www.city-data.com/forum/dalla...-own-land.html) it will be substantially more expensive in the end. We need to figure out if it's something we can/want to sustain financially.
Remember what Ben Franklin said about liberty and safety? (in this case the "safety" of a "protected" home value). Fewer and fewer people believe in that these days.
Um, no. You have every right and freedom to choose to live in a neighborhood with no HOA.
Personally, I'm not forking over hundreds of thousands of dollars and NOT knowing that there is someone out there making sure everyone keeps the place looking nice. That is WHY I bought where I bought.
But iffen I want to create turd scuptures in my front yard or paint my house polka dot, I can always move to a neighborhood without an HOA (or to Austin).
Thank you! Yes, that's one option we're considering. From what I learned here (//www.city-data.com/forum/dalla...-own-land.html) it will be substantially more expensive in the end. We need to figure out if it's something we can/want to sustain financially.
There are several empty lots in Melshire Estates in north Dallas but that area is out of your price range.
I encourage you again to consider Richardson. Most neighborhoods here have no HOA, gas service is available, it is centrally located, and the schools are outstanding. Of course I am biased because I live here, but I would not recommend it if I did not think it might be an appropriate choice for you.
I live in Far North Dallas and most of the neighborhoods are voluntary HOA's which is not the type of mandatory HOA you are thinking of. You don't have to join a voluntary HOA. This area was built in the 1960s and 1970s. Look at Prestonwood, Highlands North, Prestonwood East, Estates West, Spring Creek, Highlands of McKamy, and others - these are in the city of Dallas - and then on the other side of Coit in Richardson are the JJ Pearce Addition, the Reservation or Canyon Creek or Prairie Creek.
These voluntary HOA's will report you to the city (they have connections) if you are violating a city code and the city will come out and be the enforcer.
There are a couple of private swim clubs in the area you can join if you want a community pool thing - Spring Creek has a pool and tennis courts and it's on the Dallas side and Greenwood Hills as a pool and sand volleyball and it's on the Richardson side. It's just a few hundred dollars a summer and you can do it as long as you want that feature and then when you don't need it because the kids are getting older, you just don't join. Anyone can join either club.
I am not a fan of the mandatory HOAs as I deal with them at work. Their power is frightening (and varies by state - in many states HOAs have way more power than they do in Texas) and I would never live in one.
If your going to live in the northern burbs having a HOA is pretty much a given. The best approach is to find one that is not very restrictive. I don't have a issue with HOA's requiring the yards be cut and properties be kept in generally good condition. I do have a issue with those who want to determine what color you can paint your house or what type plants you have to plant. I could live in a place so restrictive.
Thank you for pointing that out!
That's not particularly generous though, I assume that anything less would contradict generally-accepted contract law principles. Now I'm curious, next time I see my lawyer I will ask.
Your lawyer likely will not know much about TX real estate law -- the laws vary widely from state to state. TX is not as consumer friendly as CA, so my advice would be to get a good Texas real estate lawyer to advise you on how to construct a good purchase contract to your advantage.
It's not pointless, it's exactly what I have asked for!
Loves2read, I really appreciate the fact that you took the time to respond to my posts. Based on the number of replies to my question and your overall number of posts, I'm making the assumption that you are a realtor or a property manager.
Respectfully, if you were my agent or my property manager, this is where you'd be fired. I asked a question that you had no direct or clear answer to. Had I seen a simple option to only list no-hoas on realtor.com or on any other RE website I have come across, I would not have asked here. Trust me, like everyone else here, I can use a web browser.
If you're responding out of pure altruism without any ulterior intentions, bless your heart but you're not helping. If this is a marketing activity for you, then again, bless your heart and here's piece of advice: Provide answers that are clear and to the point, not your opinion of the poster's question. Don't antagonize your prospects. The guy with a few bucks to spend is ALWAYS RIGHT, unless you're not interested in his business.
Now throw me a bone please and let me know where I can search by HOA type (i.e. none/voluntary/mandatory).
... and here I am, asking for concision with this long post
Don't you find it interesting that real estate professionals have no problems identifying the number of bedrooms to be an important attribute of the house but will hem, haw, and divert the conversation when it comes to whether the property has the legal entanglement of an involuntary membership HOA corporation?
Time after time, real estate types will challenge the "no HOA" mandate by a prospective purchaser. Although visible attributes of the property are of interest, many purchasers have learned to be wary of invisible attributes such as the HOA liability. After all, what's so great about perpetual liens for ever-increasing "assessments" that can never be paid off?
Your request is a very reasonable one and yet there isn't a simple "yes/no" or checkbox to enable discriminating between properties burdened with and those that are not burdened with an HOA corporation.
If HOAs were so great, then why shouldn't the HOA be identified on the MLS data? Making entry of such information discretionary and allowing real estate agents/brokers to hide behind disclaimers isn't exactly a selling point for HOAs, is it?
The self-serving solution frequently provided by some real estate professionals is that you should "move if you don't like it". To what, another HOA-burdened subdivision where the same "advice" will be given?
One thing is for certain. You cannot rely on any data coming out of MLS as it pertains to the lack of an HOA. Don't make any assumptions and do not rely upon listing data provided by a real estate service. Make it a condition of the sales contract that the property must not be burdened by involuntary membership in any organization and make the offer contingent upon verification that there is no HOA burdening the property and/or no involuntary membership obligation running with the real property. Membership in these organizations is nothing but a liability. If it was an asset then membership wouldn't be involuntary.
The following website provides a decent description of the trade groups that prey upon prospective and actual purchasers of HOA-burdened property. theHOAprimer
Although a confluence of factors and trade group activities have made it difficult to search for non-HOA property, you may be able to eliminate entire subdivisions based upon clues you can get from online sources such as the following:
i) other listings referring to "community" amenities for the same subdivision
ii) listing agent comments advising you to contact agent regarding association fees
iii) management certificates recorded at the county clerk's office by "professional" management companies (might be categorized as certificate, resolution, or other) Note: the lack of such a certificate does not mean that an HOA does not exist nor that there isn't a management company involved
iv) search state databases (Secretary of State, Comptroller) for incorporated "associations" that subsume the subdivision's name. These typically utilize the terms "association", "improvement association", "owners association", etc.
v) non-zero assessments on MLS listings
vi) central appraisal district records showing property ownership in the area in the name of a property owners association, inc.
vii) asking around just like you are doing.
That's exactly the kind of commie stuff that we're not at all interested in. I guess I need to start calling around and ask for copies of CC&Rs. I wonder how many HOAs/builders etc will just go ahead and send a copy to an inquiring stranger. It will definitely be a deal-breaker for me if they don't.
You should just be prepared to go to unincorporated areas way out. Thats just the way it is now a days. Most HOAs didn't care what you did in the back yard if it was under fence level.
Last edited by SouthernBelleInUtah; 03-17-2011 at 05:51 PM..
Don't you find it interesting that real estate professionals have no problems identifying the number of bedrooms to be an important attribute of the house but will hem, haw, and divert the conversation when it comes to whether the property has the legal entanglement of an involuntary membership HOA corporation?
Time after time, real estate types will challenge the "no HOA" mandate by a prospective purchaser. Although visible attributes of the property are of interest, many purchasers have learned to be wary of invisible attributes such as the HOA liability. After all, what's so great about perpetual liens for ever-increasing "assessments" that can never be paid off?
Your request is a very reasonable one and yet there isn't a simple "yes/no" or checkbox to enable discriminating between properties burdened with and those that are not burdened with an HOA corporation.
If HOAs were so great, then why shouldn't the HOA be identified on the MLS data? Making entry of such information discretionary and allowing real estate agents/brokers to hide behind disclaimers isn't exactly a selling point for HOAs, is it?
The self-serving solution frequently provided by some real estate professionals is that you should "move if you don't like it". To what, another HOA-burdened subdivision where the same "advice" will be given?
One thing is for certain. You cannot rely on any data coming out of MLS as it pertains to the lack of an HOA. Don't make any assumptions and do not rely upon listing data provided by a real estate service. Make it a condition of the sales contract that the property must not be burdened by involuntary membership in any organization and make the offer contingent upon verification that there is no HOA burdening the property and/or no involuntary membership obligation running with the real property. Membership in these organizations is nothing but a liability. If it was an asset then membership wouldn't be involuntary.
The following website provides a decent description of the trade groups that prey upon prospective and actual purchasers of HOA-burdened property. theHOAprimer
Although a confluence of factors and trade group activities have made it difficult to search for non-HOA property, you may be able to eliminate entire subdivisions based upon clues you can get from online sources such as the following:
i) other listings referring to "community" amenities for the same subdivision
ii) listing agent comments advising you to contact agent regarding association fees
iii) management certificates recorded at the county clerk's office by "professional" management companies (might be categorized as certificate, resolution, or other) Note: the lack of such a certificate does not mean that an HOA does not exist nor that there isn't a management company involved
iv) search state databases (Secretary of State, Comptroller) for incorporated "associations" that subsume the subdivision's name. These typically utilize the terms "association", "improvement association", "owners association", etc.
v) non-zero assessments on MLS listings
vi) central appraisal district records showing property ownership in the area in the name of a property owners association, inc.
vii) asking around just like you are doing.
Good luck!
What a breath of fresh air this post was! Thank you!
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