Why isn't Downtown Dallas nice like Downtown Fort Worth? (Houston: hotel, neighborhoods)

[ClarenceBodiker]

Originally Posted by hamiltonpl

Fort Worth's Bass family basically took over downtown and developed it. I think they've done a great job.

One thing Ft. Worth has is -- less. They don't have the intense competition that Dallas does. Here, every time someone (a company or person) wants to move to Dallas -- they have every municipality with raw land in the sticks giving them some sort of incentive to move out to a sprawling bedroom community. It discourages density. And it results in very little of a sense of place. I think it is bad for the whole region not to have a dense downtown core in Dallas. And it's one reason that I think people should at least look in the city of Dallas when relocating.

Agreed. Fort Worth's greatest competition is Dallas. While Fort Worth is guilty of suburban sprawl itself, places like HEB, NRH, Colleyville, and so on know their places as bedroom communities and actually seem to support and enjoy, rather than fight with, Fort Worth.

Dallas is competing with not only Fort Worth, but Plano, Irving, Frisco, Richardson, and every city along the Tollway that thinks it's the next Dallas.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by HubbaHubba1

Just Curious? Why can't Downtown Dallas get it together? Downtown Fort Worth is so nice, clean, cultured, pretty, well maintained, shops, apartments, Art, businesses, etc, it seems to be progressing more than Dallas? Why?

Because Dallas has Uptown, Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville, Knox Henderson, Oak Lawn, etc entertainment districts all within a mile or two from downtown. There isn't the urgency to "develop downtown" when there are so many other places to live & play in the center city.

Downtown Dallas doesn't need to "get it together"......sure it would be nice if it happens someday, but it's just not necessary to the city's success.

PS- Downtown Dallas does harbor the largest urban arts district in the country- dozens of venues for performing & visual arts within a 2-3 block stretch. Doesn't that count for something?!

[Grainraiser]

I have been to downtown Dallas and Ft Worth on a Saturday night and must say I like Ft Worth better. Fort have more eateries and things are much more closer together. Downtown Ft Worth seemed more family oriented while Dallas seemed to have more of a club/take a date type atmosphere. I must say Dallas downtown has changed alot over the last 2 years. I remember when it was deader than dead. Ft Worth seems to have peaked while Dallas seems to be growing.

[TrueDat]

And Fort Worth now has the growing restaurant scene along Magnolia Avenue and restaurant/bar scene along W. 7th, neither far from downtown. It'll be interesting to see how these affect downtown Fort Worth over the next few years.

[DtX4415]

Up until the last five years or so one has presented itself and worked as a business and govt. location. While the other has focused on more of a tourist/nightlife spot rather then just business and govt.

[Aquafina]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

Dallas does harbor the largest urban arts district in the country- dozens of venues for performing & visual arts within a 2-3 block stretch.

The key word here is "contiguous" arts district. Most cities have much more impressive venues all over the city.

The Dallas Arts district seems very unimpressive to me. Like a McMansion, it seems very convoluted and superficial. Believe me, when people in America think of the arts, they do not think of Dallas.

Downtown Dallas is a train wreck x 10. Don't waste your time.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by Aquafina

The key word here is "contiguous" arts district. Most cities have much more impressive venues all over the city.

The Dallas Arts district seems very unimpressive to me. It seems very convoluted and superficial. Believe me, when people in America think of the arts, they do not think of Dallas.

Here's an outsider's point of view, published in the Chicago Tribune a few months ago:
Cityscapes: A work in progress: The Dallas Arts District gathers trophy buildings, but still searches for urban vitality

Can you name another US city with 68 contiguous acres and 19 straight city blocks of arts facilities located in/near downtown? Maybe NYC's Museum Mile along 5th Avenue comes close, but it's disconnected from the performing arts on Broadway and at Lincoln Center.

The District | The Dallas Arts District

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by Aquafina

The key word here is "contiguous" arts district. Most cities have much more impressive venues all over the city.

The Dallas Arts district seems very unimpressive to me. Like a McMansion, it seems very convoluted and superficial. Believe me, when people in America think of the arts, they do not think of Dallas.

Downtown Dallas is a train wreck x 10. Don't waste your time.

I can see how it might appear convoluted to you. The Dallas Arts District was conceived 30 years ago when the DMA agreed to leave Fair Park. You don't end up with a central arts district that has buildings by F-O-U-R Pritzker Prize award winning architects without some serious planning.

You may not like it, but it has been largely lauded by the national arts community for assimilating both visual and performing arts. If you've gone to any of the Brinker lectures at the Winspear or seen any of the major actors/directors/artists speak at Booker T, they are all blown away by the central hub that the district is. If you studied the playbills of the performances coming in and out every week, it's impessive by all but Manhattan standards.

People don't think of Dallas as a creator of art- which we aren't. But we have a tremendous community that supports and enjoys the arts and that is who the district was built by and for.

Oh, and we also have one of the most outstanding arts magnet high schools in the nation is housed in the arts district- what a wonderous experience for those students, many of whom don't have the funds to buy tickets to performances, to get personal access to both the artists and the performances at school every day.

[fabulous_nobody]

I only spent one Saturday afternoon in Fort Worth downtown, I can't say it's my kind of place, so I am not going to comment on it; I do live in the Art District in Dallas, for me that's practically Downtown Dallas. I can shop at Neiman Marcus, have coffee at Mercantile, lunch at Zodiac, Yoga at the The Crow Asian Museum, watch ballet at Winspear Opera House, attend concert at Dallas Symphony. I've done all of the above multiple times in the short 8 month I've been here! I absolutely love it!

[Macbeth2003]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

If you studied the playbills of the performances coming in and out every week, it's impessive by all but Manhattan standards.

People don't think of Dallas as a creator of art- which we aren't. But we have a tremendous community that supports and enjoys the arts and that is who the district was built by and for.

Oh, and we also have one of the most outstanding arts magnet high schools in the nation is housed in the arts district- what a wonderous experience for those students, many of whom don't have the funds to buy tickets to performances, to get personal access to both the artists and the performances at school every day.

The performing arts aspects of the Arts district are fairly roundly despised by the Dallas performing arts community. The Wyly might be the worst theatre building in the world You climb down a pit to enter a lobby too small to hold the patrons, and bar so undersized they recommend texting your order in advance. You then go sit in seats so famously uncomfortable critics constantly wrote about them. They even spent a fortune putting additional cushions in them to no avail. In there you can see Dallas Theatre Center performances which, despite Dallas's great pool of talent, most roles, and technical positions are filled with artists imported from out of town. The Dallas Theatre Center has been famous for this for so long it was the subject of jokes @ the Rabin awards a decade ago.
Meanwhile touring shows from out of town are brought into the Opera House.
Every student I have known at Booker T (and over the last few years that is quite a number) despises the arts district theatres, and shares the view of the Dallas Theatre community that they are simply places to truck in out of town performers and shows. They actually hurt the Dallas Arts community, not help it.
This isn't true for the Myerson/ or the Museums, but the Wyly and The Opera House are expensive Tombs for Dallas Arts.