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Old 06-27-2011, 11:33 PM
 
Location: So California
8,707 posts, read 9,582,471 times
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DT Dallas has more potential because it is much larger, but FtWorth is miles ahead right now. I think the peripheral areas actual enhance DT, So7th, Museum District, Stockyards.
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:39 PM
 
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The World Aquarium in downtown Dallas is far from being a trainwreck.

Downtown Dallas also has Deep Ellum which is a huge arts district, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquafina View Post
The key word here is "contiguous" arts district. Most cities have much more impressive venues all over the city.

The Dallas Arts district seems very unimpressive to me. Like a McMansion, it seems very convoluted and superficial. Believe me, when people in America think of the arts, they do not think of Dallas.

Downtown Dallas is a train wreck x 10. Don't waste your time.
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:45 PM
 
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You are talking about downtown Dallas like it's the center of Harlem. Ughh.

What people do not understand is that the lack of traffic and lack of people actually is very good: it's a perk! Who wants to be crowded in with thousands of baby strollers, rude and boorish toddlers that stink like poop, and morbidly obese families stampeding in your pathway? I don't want that BS when I go out to an arts district, or a downtown event or a party.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarenceBodiker View Post
There is actually a bigger variety of things to do in downtown Dallas than Fort Worth, the devil is in the details. Downtown Fort Worth has done quite a few things to draw more people than Dallas. One thing is it has provided a safe feeling envirornment. All of Fort Worth's downtown area is very well lit and has a heavy police presence, both city and private security. Dallas, on the other hand, has large sections of its downtown that feels completely deserted and dark that makes people and families uneasy late at night if you find yourself off the beaten track. Fort Worth also caters to the every man. Most of downtown feels very casual and laid back. While there are upscale things in DFTW like the Bass Hall and upscale restaurants, there's not a shortage of eateries, bars, the movie theater, and so on for people of all ages and incomes. While Dallas is getting better about this, it still seems to try to cater to higher end entertainment. Another thing is parking. All parking downtown is FREE and PLENTIFUL after business hours and on weekends. Dallas is full of valet (again, trying to be upscale again), paid parking garages and lots. That, along with huge private investments from people like the Bass Brothers for rennovation in the mid- to late-nineties, has created an environment that has done a good job attracting people and business to the area. Dallas really needs a Bass Brothers of their own, because big cities themselves seem to be incompetent (Dallas is not alone in that). Dallas needs Ross Perot, Jr. and Mark Cuban to basically buy downtown and fix it up.
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:49 PM
 
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But what nightclubs does it have beside country redneck places?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slo1318 View Post
DT Dallas has more potential because it is much larger, but FtWorth is miles ahead right now. I think the peripheral areas actual enhance DT, So7th, Museum District, Stockyards.
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:01 AM
 
Location: So California
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Obviously you have no clue....
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:19 AM
hsw
 
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Companies and workers prefer Irving or Cupertino or MtnVw, not an ole DT w/costly towers and costly, dubiously safe pkg garages

Some hedge funds like towers: in Dallas, they're in two towers in Uptown

FW is a tiny place w/a few wealthy guys w/offices in DT (and reside in suburbs)

Why should suburban taxpayers subsidize clean-up of any economically irrelevant DT, like Dallas or Cleveland or Houston??? If corporates or wealthy taxpayers/philanthropists want to foot bill, that's their problem...
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:26 AM
 
Location: So California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsw View Post
Companies and workers prefer Irving or Cupertino or MtnVw, not an ole DT w/costly towers and costly, dubiously safe pkg garages

Some hedge funds like towers: in Dallas, they're in two towers in Uptown

FW is a tiny place w/a few wealthy guys w/offices in DT (and reside in suburbs)

Why should suburban taxpayers subsidize clean-up of any economically irrelevant DT, like Dallas or Cleveland or Houston??? If corporates or wealthy taxpayers/philanthropists want to foot bill, that's their problem...

Not all companies.

Not just hedge funds.

FW is a mid size city with an appropriately sized downtown. Those "wealthy guys" reside in FW, within view of DT.

Cities, taxpayers, and corporations have vested interests in investing in the communities in which they live. Civic pride is alive and well on CD
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:48 AM
 
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Fort Worth's downtown is much smaller and more compact than Dallas. The physically shorter blocks on a uniform grid make it easier to navigate from a pedestrian perspective. The oldest part of Dallas (near the Old Red Courthouse) once had a similar grid that was lost over time when streets were closed to create superblocks. Many of the smaller contiguous blocks of buildings were demolished for huge developments or parking lots during Dallas' various building booms (Fort Worth's smaller buildings were preserved/"recreated" by the Bass Family). This left a lot of gaps between areas of activity which still exist today. There are various districts within downtown Dallas and surrounding neighborhoods with their own activity independent of each other. New residential development, civic structures and parks have begun to fill in those gaps, and future streetcar lines will help those connections even more. I've seen a lot of changes in the 5 years of living downtown.

Dallas is a bit behind in urban design, but safety is no longer an issue and 7,000 people now reside in what was only a business district a decade ago. The "Better Block" initiatives and Downtown Dallas 360 Area Plan will change the "neighborhood" in the future. Developer Tim Headington might be to Dallas' Main Street District what the Bass Family was to Fort Worth; his recent property purchases and successful Joule Hotel will greatly influence retail in the core. The area needs to cater to more than just office workers and should put more focus on urban design, but I don't want to it to be full of generic chain restaurants or tourist traps like downtown Fort Worth.
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Old 06-28-2011, 02:45 AM
 
Location: Upper East Side of Texas
12,510 posts, read 24,418,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
I can see how it might appear convoluted to you. The Dallas Arts District was conceived 30 years ago when the DMA agreed to leave Fair Park. You don't end up with a central arts district that has buildings by F-O-U-R Pritzker Prize award winning architects without some serious planning.

You may not like it, but it has been largely lauded by the national arts community for assimilating both visual and performing arts. If you've gone to any of the Brinker lectures at the Winspear or seen any of the major actors/directors/artists speak at Booker T, they are all blown away by the central hub that the district is. If you studied the playbills of the performances coming in and out every week, it's impessive by all but Manhattan standards.

People don't think of Dallas as a creator of art- which we aren't. But we have a tremendous community that supports and enjoys the arts and that is who the district was built by and for.

Oh, and we also have one of the most outstanding arts magnet high schools in the nation is housed in the arts district- what a wonderous experience for those students, many of whom don't have the funds to buy tickets to performances, to get personal access to both the artists and the performances at school every day.
I HIGHLY doubt that.

San Francisco, Chicago, & Houston all have much better performing arts than Dallas. Houston has the largest theater district 2nd only to New York City.

Dallas' arts district is so large because everything is concentrated in one area.
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:26 AM
 
178 posts, read 349,744 times
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live in fort worth. work in downtown dallas. used to live in uptown ... all these posts about downtown dallas being as good or better than downtown fort worth are absurd and silly.

downtown dallas is a classic example of suburbanism run wild - the place is dead after 5pm on weekdays and dead all weekend. residential developments are few and largely self contained and isolated and several have been rocked by the housing crash, such as SoCo and the Metropolitan, the latter of which has had to resort to auctioning off its excess units through the REDC not once, but twice. and in spite of the moving of the homeless services center to south of downtown, panhandlers and homeless are still prevalent in the central business district.

west end is a joke, its used to be a destination in my childhood but it has steadily bled tenants since. is now an eyesore and poor tourist trap. deep ellum has been in decline for years as well. what's truly pathetic is that the declines have happened after the introduction of light rail service to both areas.

fixing things is really dependent on the city luring corporate back downtown. the vacancy rate downtown has always been very very poor for decades, as high as 30%+. elm place just went dark a few months ago, 50+ stories of akard. again, another building that has a light rail station right next to it. more large companies have to move downtown. moneygram and highland capital have been recent new tenants, but that's not going to cut it. at&t moved its global headquarters, but its unnoticeable since they already had an enormous presence off of commerce. blockbuster is moving to mckinney, fluor chose to move to las colinas, research in motion as well. interstate batteries in north dallas, etc.

when boeing tried to decide between moving its headquarters to either dallas or chicago, dallas lost in large part due to a lack of a mature mass transit system and deficiencies downtown.

downtown fort worth is everything that downtown dallas isnt. it has a vacancy rate of only 10%. its benefited from natural gas, with chesapeake and XTO having a large presence downtwon. it has a well defined city center where people congregate every day of the week around the clock in sundance square. it has a large, sprawling, well kept park along the trinity. which is something dallas has been completely impotent at creating for itself for over four decades. it has several large and interdependent residential communities that have sparked additional development both in downtown, to the west along 7th streetand southside. the redevelopment of montgomery plaza, all the new mixed use development towards the cultural district. there are bike lanes, reliable mass transit and food trucks. its an actual community. its a liveable, walkable, pleasant place. new urbanism at its finest.

downtown fort worth used to be worse than downtown dallas. a horrible homeless problem, they numbered into the tens of thousands and lived under the old I-30 bridge unchecked. fort worth cleaned the place up largely through a concerted partnership between the city and the private sector, making tactical development decisions block by block. and to be objective about it, dallas is trying. i like rawlings as mayor. i like the new residential development that is directly north of west end station. i like the development in the arts district. but it isnt enough. not even close. too many empty office buildings. bryan-related development falling through. not enough development to support residential growth downtown. no movement on the trinity.

Last edited by Eric Fred Norris; 06-28-2011 at 09:51 AM..
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