Is North Texas-based American Airlines in Permanent Decline ? (Houston, Dallas: how much, living in)

[diablo234]

Originally Posted by justme02

Atlanta and Dallas are different from cities like Denver and Phoenix where Southwest has had a big effect because of reasons 1 and 2 especially. Those cities dont have a large demand for domestic first class nor do they have large amounts of international O&D.

Southwest is not going to have the effect on Dallas or Atlanta that some are looking for. It just isnt going to happen.

Speaking of Southwest, they posted a $140 million loss today. On a per capita basis, thats much larger than the loss American had. However, Southwest will recover much faster.

Regarding O&D on international flights Denver seems to be doing pretty well (although it is still miniscule compared with big hubs such as IAH, DFW, ORD, etc) especially regarding trans-Atlantic flights. Icelandair was going to start service there sometime next year and it seems that the British Airways and Lufthansa flights are doing really well there also.

[JimBaker488]

Originally Posted by diablo234

Regarding O&D on international flights Denver seems to be doing pretty well (although it is still miniscule compared with big hubs such as IAH, DFW, ORD, etc) especially regarding trans-Atlantic flights. Icelandair was going to start service there sometime next year and it seems that the British Airways and Lufthansa flights are doing really well there also.

Is Frontier a viable carrier in Denver over the long-run, or do you think it ends up eventually getting run out of there by the big boys like SouthWest and UAL ? I have heard that it's developed a certain amount of customer-loyalty in Denver ?

[JimBaker488]

Pilots union wants base realignment agreement with American before continuing contract talks

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Earlier this month, American announced it was closing its San Francisco pilot base, citing staffing shortages because of the unusually high number of pilot retirements. About 270 of American's 8,700 pilots are based in San Francisco.
The carrier has not set a date for closing the base but said it wants an agreement with the union to shorten the six-month notice requirement in the current pilot contract.
With this new motion approved by the APA board, it looks like the pace of contract talks could be slowing down as they address the base closure issue.


Read more: Sky Talk: Pilots union wants base realignment agreement with American before continuing contract talks
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The unions are so anti-productive/anti-efficeint and this is an excellent example of what I mean. Just makes it tougher for AMR to get things turned around.

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Here is some more related information on DFW and Love Field after Wright. Michael Boyd (a well known and respect aviation consultant) pretty much says what Ive said. The impacts of Wright ending are probably going to be minimal on DFW and American:


"In less than three years, the lifting of Wright Amendment restrictions at will open up many new destinations to North Texas travelers who want to fly out of Love Field.
And that is causing some concern among DFW board members, who wonder how Southwest Airlines, Love Field's main tenant, will adjust schedules to accommodate the Dallas business traveler.
Love Field is upgrading its facilities and changing its concessions in preparation for the Wright Amendment repeal, hoping to attract other airlines.
"When the Wright Amendment goes away, they could take 8 percent of the [domestic market] share away from you," airline consultant Michael Boyd told board members at the retreat. Southwest is likely to eliminate some of its multiple daily flights to Houston, Austin and San Antonio to make room for flights to Chicago, Denver, Las Vegas and Atlanta.
However, Boyd told the airport board not to worry too much about Love Field's impact because DFW will continue to grow organically with more international routes and connecting traffic on American's network. He added that more residents are moving into the northwest section of the Metroplex than to the east, and they won't want to drive to Love Field when DFW is much closer.
DFW may also retain some of the Dallas business travelers with the completion of its Dallas Area Rapid Transit station in 2014. The station, which will attach to Terminal A, will be ready in 2013, and DART is expected to lay the rail down the next year.
And with Dallas-based Southwest limited to 16 gates at Love Field, Boyd said, it won't be able to expand its capacity by leaps and bounds.
Other airlines, like JetBlue, are also unlikely to add service to an airport where Southwest is dominant. "Love is an important part of the region's infrastructure, but it's not the airport gateway for the Metroplex. And won't be," Boyd said."

A new DFW Airport takes shape | Airlines and Aviation | Dallas Business, Texas Business,... (http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/11/05/3501813/a-new-dfw-airport-takes-shape.html - broken link)

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by JimBaker488

Can you reveal where you get those airport/city O&D stats ?

I can. Sorry for the delay. Here are the O&D in millions and the revenue each city generates from air traffic. Cities with multiple airports are put together:

Markets / Passenger(mil) / Revenue(mil)
1. New York - 66.2 - $13,636
2. Chicago - 39.3 - 6,726
3. Los Angeles - 33.7 - 6,609
4. Miami/Fort Lauderdale - 31.9 - 2,297
5. Las Vegas - 30.7 - 4,445
6. Orlando - 28.8 - 4,070
7. Dallas/Fort Worth - 26.4 - 5,009
8. Atlanta - 26.3 - 4,649
9. San Francisco - 25.0 - 5,335
10. Washington, DC - 24.9 - 5,760
11. Denver - 24.4 - 3,712
12. Phoenix - 22.1 - 3,288
13. Boston - 21.8 - 4,192
14. Seattle - 21.6 - 3,696
15. Houston - 21.4 - 4,241
16. Philadelphia - 17.3 – 2,936
17. Baltimore - 16.4 - 2,190
18. San Diego - 16.1 - 2,669
19. Minneapolis/St. Paul - 16.0 - 3,004
20. Tampa - 15.9- 2,233
21. Detroit - 14.9 - 2,700
22. Miami - 13.2 - 2,895
23. Honolulu - 12.0 - 2,695
24. Portland, OR - 11.0 - 1,911
25. Salt Lake City - 10.1 – 1,689

[DaveG99]

He added that more residents are moving into the northwest section of the Metroplex than to the east

I dont think that is true. I guess that guy has never been up to Frisco, McKinney, Allen, etc.

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by DaveG99

I dont think that is true. I guess that guy has never been up to Frisco, McKinney, Allen, etc.

Those areas are all more convenient to DFW than Love Field thanks to 121. Frisco is north/northwest of Dallas anyway.

I think he means growth to the areas East of Dallas is much slower and thats certainly true.

[DaveG99]

Originally Posted by justme02

Those areas are all more convenient to DFW than Love Field thanks to 121. Frisco is north/northwest of Dallas anyway.

I think he means growth to the areas East of Dallas is much slower and thats certainly true.

Well I live off the tollway up north in Plano. I can get to love field in about 15 minutes. DFW takes a little longer but not much. The reasons I prefer Love field and SWA specifically are as follows.

1. I get a TON of free flights from southwest. I even have a companion pass that allows another person to fly anywhere I go for free.

2. Parking is MUCH cheaper at love field

3. Love field is easier to get into and out of. Its way smaller and doesnt take 10 minutes to drive across. It takes about 1 minute.

4. I love open seating. I can sit where ever I want.

5. I can carry on two bags and check two bags for free.

6. I get lots of free alcohol drink coupons from SWA for being an a-list preferred customer.

7. I can change or cancel my flights very easily with no extra fees.

7. there are plenty more but I think this should suffice.

The wright amendment is the only negative. And soon that will be gone.

[JimBaker488]

A personal note about DFW airport: for the first times in years I flew thru there recently and WOW was I impressed with the "people mover" that that airport now has to transport passengers between terminals. It's such a vast improvement over what I remember they used to have @ DFW for passengers needing to make connections.

[DaveG99]

Originally Posted by JimBaker488

A personal note about DFW airport: for the first times in years I flew thru there recently and WOW was I impressed with the "people mover" that that airport now has to transport passengers between terminals. It's such a vast improvement over what I remember they used to have @ DFW for passengers needing to make connections.

thats another problem with DFW. There are so many different terminals so spread out that it makes things confusing. Its another thing you have to worry about when picking someone up.