Young couple looking to buy our first home in M Streets/Lakewood or Preston Hollow (Dallas: attorneys, houses)

[GreyDay]

Originally Posted by hplindley

Now to change gears a bit. I received a wonderful education at Highland Park High School. But socially, it was horrible. Now years later, a decent number of grads seem to be doing well. But, at the expense of sounding harsh, if they never had Daddy's money very few would survive. I want my kids to grow up somewhere else where they don't have that sense of entitlement. Highland Park comes with its own strange welfare system. There are other solid options around. Just food for thought.

Always consider a 15 year mortgage if you can, you build equity quicker if you can swing the payments and the rates are better (marginally at this point).

Yes, I've done my own amateur anthropological research in HP and have noticed the 'system' you speak of. People are quite open when you're dressed like a kid studying at Starbucks. However for all it's worth, not having to go through a metal detector is better than dealing with whatever high-class problems come from going to HPISD. That said, if you can get your kid into a Dallas Magnet school, the education is as good or better than HPISD.

As for renting is wasting money. If you take a loss at resale, have built little equity and paid property taxes- you are probably better off getting a nice, affordable apt and socking the money away until you're ready to make a move.

Welcome from DC, I'm still looking for a Tombs type place here.

[Lakewooder]

Hmm some people on here are assuming that the Park Cities are superior to Lakewood :O Once you move to Lakewood you won't see the need to spend double the money just to 'gain admission' to the Bubble. Then you have to 'keep up' with the others caught in that trap. Lakewooders are just not interested in playing those games.

Post 9-11, going through a metal detector is no big deal in my opinion. In any case, the wealthy who go to our schools do not turn out to be spoiled brats with a superiority complex.

[mSooner]

SURELY this couple can find an adequate place to rent- a duplex, small house, etc - in M Streets/ East Dallas for $1,500 and have NO repair liabilities whatsoever.

That's a nice budget for a 1 or 2 bed place in the M Streets! In fact, I know of a cute place we'll be vacating soon

At any rate, best of luck

[jelf]

Originally Posted by hplindley

The great thing about HPHS is that most kids go to college. But not a significant percentage finish college, nor do they get jobs or pay the rent (at 35+) without their parent's money. I've seen this with my HP classmates and my siblings' HP classmates. The wonderful education prepares a student for college. But the self-destructive HP culture does not prepare a person for reality beyond college acceptance.

Although graduate school is not the only measure of success, it a decent quantitative one. Out of my entire graduating class of nearly 400, there are six lawyers and one physician. A handful of others went on to banking, finance, oil and gas and real estate. Many of them see no problem with their parents buying them a car at 30+ or subsidizing their mortgage. Many (if not most) work at their parent's office or married into money.

I've known too many HPHS students who needed metal detectors. Don't get too cozy when reading the crime reported in the police blotter. That is the fluff they want you to read. Kids with money buy stupid stuff -- like drugs and guns. HPHS kids, however, are smart enough to conceal them both. On any given day, there are about 5 grams of cocaine and about 5 concealed firearms at Highland Park High School. Nobody talks about it. Personally, I never felt threatened by any of that stuff. But in my current profession I've dealt with a lot of it on a regular basis.

Crimes have been "unreported" under my watch in University Park. They get routed to the Dallas DA. When the kid's parent is well-connected, then the UPPD doesn't show up at the grand jury and the case is dismissed. This is the sort of thing that just isn't talked about. The records are scrubbed clean.

As a parent, you innately think that this won't happen to your kids. But it is hard to fight the culture in HP. Painfully hard. In my opinion, Highland Park education does not trump Highland Park culture.

In retrospect, is there a school that would have given you an equal or similar education without the social drawbacks?

[GreyDay]

Wow. I have no reference point for a public upper school but you all make HPHS seem like a take from 'Less Than Zero'.


Call me old fashioned but if a school needs a metal detector, that's a problem.

[thebears1982]

Thanks for all of the advice, everyone! I really appreciate it.

You make some great points regarding our "5 year plan." We will definitely be ready to buy a place of our own this summer/fall, so waiting to save more money and continuing to rent just so we can buy in the Park Cities isn't really something we're interested in. If it isn't really feasible to buy in PH or M Streets/Lakewood, then move to Park Cities in 5 years, then we'd just stay put. I wouldn't say that it's a dream to live in the Park Cities, more of a possible option.

Regarding elementary schools, it seems that Stonewall Jackson and Lakewood elementary schools are both great, but what about various elementary schools in PH? What are the best (public schools, I am referring to). We aren't ruling out some of the great Catholic schools in that area either.

We went to some open houses in PH last weekend and found quite a few 3 or 4 bedroom/2 or 3 bathroom homes in PH (again, between Northwest Hwy, Forest, 75, and Midway) in our $300-$400k price range. They were all between 2-3k sq ft. and had some updates. We also really do like the M Streets/Lakewood areas, but wonder if we'd be able to get a big enough house to grow into with a couple kids and then be able to move into something larger in 5 (or more) years.

[thebears1982]

Another question for you all. I understand some of the stereotypes for the Park Cities, but what are some of the stereotypes/characteristics for folks in the PH, M Streets, and Lakewood areas? Positives and negatives, please!

[Texas214]

Like the OP and many others, we are a young couple looking at neighborhoods to spend our next 5-6 years before moving into HP. I was hoping the responses on this thread would be helpful to us as well. Unfortunately, people will take any chance they can to bash HPISD. Maybe we will eventually fall in love with a neighborhood and change our minds about moving, but a debate on HPISD was not the advice solicited as I read the post.

We have gotten the impression that Lakewood would be a great place for a young family and love the character of the area. However, the inventory of homes for sale is incredibly low. Anyone have any predictions on when this might change? The houses I've seen in our similar price range in Preston Hollow are dull at best. Thoughts on Bluffview/Devonshire/West HP? Those areas seem overpriced, is there a benefit we're missing? Any advice on Lakewood vs. M Streets for young children? I feel Lakewood is safer- less traffic, fewer bad patches, better street lighting, further from the bars... Also, what's the best way to get from 75/HP to Lakewood avoiding Mockingbird? Is it possible?

Those suggesting renting, have you checked the prices lately? We have a great condo leased for what I now know is a great price. We cannot find anything comparable for under $3000 and need a yard for dogs and eventually children to play. I also couldn't imaging having babies in a rental where we could not decorate the nursery. From the financial advice we have received, we would actually be saving money by paying a mortgage.

Any input on these neighborhoods would be much appreciated!

Off-topic: Since some have gone there and I hate to see the school system I'm so grateful for go undefended, I must be hypocritical and address the irrelevant HPISD bashing. I went to HP schools from K-12 and hope I can provide the same opportunity for my children. The education and social experience I received there was outstanding and incomparable to any DISD school and many, if not all private schools in the area. A lot of my classes at HP were more difficult than those at the challenging university I attended. I truly believe the work ethic and desire to succeed I developed from attending HP schools has given me a great advantage. The comments about guns at HPHS are ridiculously untrue. I do not know anyone from HPHS who didn't go to college or who went to college but didn't graduate. I apologize, I have to take that back- Moderator cut: no specific names is the one person I know who went to college but didn't graduate. I think he is doing just fine. A much larger number of my classmates went on to graduate school, law school, and medical school. Perhaps the poster of this information fell in with a bad crowd I was not aware of. I'm sorry only 2% of the poster's graduating class are lawyers (that they know of). They must not realize the significance of that achievement and the sacrifices it takes to be a lawyer in this economy or they would find something more significant to seek pity for. Of course there are snobby kids and parents there, but you can find people of bad character anywhere. I hate to say it but I'd rather my children grow up around a few snobs and have to learn to be gracious than grow up elsewhere where more detrimental character traits and habits abound. The HP grads I know returned to Dallas with the knowledge that they would have to work hard to provide their children with what they had, not with a sense of entitlement and a desire to live off of their parents. All that being said, there is no denying that HP kids face a lot of pressure and it would be a hard place to grow up not fitting in. Maybe that's the source of all the bitterness and unsolicited advice?

[Lakewooder]

I think you are misreading some of this -- it seems a lot of people come across with this notion that you can just disregard any school in Lakewood because HP is just sooo much better - that's offensive. When they do that they can expect some flack. Usually their response is, well you can't afford Highland Park so you are jealous. Not true! It is a totally different way of life. If you don't want your kids to be exposed to other kinds of children then the schools in Lakewood area are NOT your cup of tea.

[Lakewooder]

Originally Posted by thebears1982

Another question for you all. I understand some of the stereotypes for the Park Cities, but what are some of the stereotypes/characteristics for folks in the PH, M Streets, and Lakewood areas? Positives and negatives, please!

Actually since there are so many different types it's kind of hard to stereotype. That's the difficulty a lot of people have with understanding East Dallas. Many people come from places where there is some uniformity. There is none here!

Maybe if you had to isolate a few types it's some who are hysterically historical, some who are very liberal (but we have a lot of conservatives - many in Lakewood go to the Republican election watch parties), some are very much 'homers' and then you have the secret-society which is not-so-secret and anyone-can-join Woodrow cult. Most of it's just very small town America which happens to be inside one of the nation's largest cities. Some say "Mayberry with Money" but we also have people with no money.

EDIT: Oh wait, I left out the PTA Ladies a.k.a. "The Lakewood Mom-fia: Unflappable since 1928".

Recently I posted on this forum about how people were picky about their phone numbers (don't like 972 because it looks like they aren't from Dallas, some like the old TA (82) exchange because it proves you are "Lakewood" )and many of the members thought I was nuts. So I posted something about the subject on Facebook and there were about 60 comments affirming this.