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Old 02-11-2013, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Willowbend/Houston
13,384 posts, read 25,639,443 times
Reputation: 10591

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingtoDFW View Post
I honestly do not understand this. How can you get out of paying auto taxes? Where and who do you bargain about this with - maybe I am missing out on some incredible opportunities here.

If that first instance of somebody not paying auto taxes did happen, then I would believe others looking into that possibility. But how does that first instance happen? Are you saying that many Indians believe in such nonexistent things?

If it were actually possible, trying to 'optimize' on taxes is certainly not an Indian only trait - Mitt Romney as far as I know is not Indian.
Im just saying that there are certain things that can be more prevelent among certain cultures.

There are many things I admire greatly about the Indian culture and the Indian friends I have. They are the most loyal friends Ive ever had, they are wonderful neighbors, they are very focused on family, and they push their children to be the very best they can be.

However, one thing that I have noticed is that many do try and bully a sales person by trying to tell them that their friends got a certain deal and they want it too or by trying to plead the sales person out of their cut. Most of my clients are Indian as well and if I say something cannot be done, I immediately get tens of emails from the client in question and his superiors in India trying to tell me that they know someone who did it and to see what I can do. The idea is that I will get intimidated and somehow give in, but in most cases there is nothing to give in to.

Again, I am not trying to bash or be racist toward anyone. Im Middle Eastern myself and I know what its like to be categorized. However, there are certain traits that exist in certain cultures moreso than others. This seems to be one of them. Again, I reiterate that this is much, much more common among Indians and South Asians that have not been here in the US for more than a couple of years or when I deal with people in India directly. I rarely experience it with my Indian clientele that has been in the US for longer than that. Lets face it, things in India are different than they are here. I travel there once a year or so on business and the practices are simply different.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:54 PM
 
2,674 posts, read 4,380,639 times
Reputation: 1576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
You can keep that false idea of car salesmen if you want to, it must make you feel better. Car salesmen in this day and age know full well that all information about a car price, hold back, dealer incentives, etc, can easily be had on the internet. We know the vast majority of customers know this information.

The customer still thinks otherwise, think they are the only customer that has this information. The thing that gets me, and it happened not once, but twice just this last Saturday and back to back with customers of Indian decent.... They wanted invoice price, refused to pay for any of the extra accessories they wanted, refused to pay the standard Texas tax, title and license fees and offered a price a couple of thousand below that. That is the gall that I get and it does make me angry. I spent my full afternoon with these two customers and they refused to buy even at a break even deal. And this was me pulling up truecar.com, kbb.com, edmunds.com to show that neutral websites showed what the pricing was.

Their offers, had the dealership taken them, would have been losses for the dealership in the multiple THOUSANDS of dollars. My Saturday, in which I should make at least two sales was totally wasted.

Now I have sold hundreds of Asian customers in my 8 years of selling cars. Many are very gracious. We are a volume dealership, I rarely make a large single commission, I go for volume sales, I have no problem matching or beating any competitors price, do not mind selling a vehicle at true cost, my dealership will do it. The irritating thing on my end is that you can go directly to that price and the customer will still think it is a place to negotiate thousands more. That is why I have gotten a little less "giving" as it were and usually go back to full sticker price. A good deal is always perception and I have found that if you go straight to what is a super deal, the customer thinks they are leaving something on the table.

It is just that percentage who expect you to make a deal that truly does lose thousands for a dealership on a purchase and then treat you with disdain when you won't do it. It goes with the territory, I am gracious when dealing with this customer, but like to vent about it every once in a while and this forum allows me to do so.
It seems like you're a victim of stereotyping. People have dealt with enough bad salesmen over the years so that you (unfairly) get treated like you're a bad saleman even though they don't know anything about you except you sell cars for a living.

However even pulling up KBB and the like, there are manufacturer holdbacks and incentives that are not always disclosed and that even the websites don't have access to.

Honestly, if it's that tough, put your bottom line price out like Carmax and say that's your line in the sand. Don't be nasty about it. Just put it out there. It's the whittling down the price bit by bit that bothers folks. It'd likely save you time.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:45 PM
 
227 posts, read 527,509 times
Reputation: 167
I am wondering why mods haven't intervened yet.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:49 PM
 
263 posts, read 409,029 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme02 View Post
Im just saying that there are certain things that can be more prevelent among certain cultures.

There are many things I admire greatly about the Indian culture and the Indian friends I have. They are the most loyal friends Ive ever had, they are wonderful neighbors, they are very focused on family, and they push their children to be the very best they can be.

However, one thing that I have noticed is that many do try and bully a sales person by trying to tell them that their friends got a certain deal and they want it too or by trying to plead the sales person out of their cut. Most of my clients are Indian as well and if I say something cannot be done, I immediately get tens of emails from the client in question and his superiors in India trying to tell me that they know someone who did it and to see what I can do. The idea is that I will get intimidated and somehow give in, but in most cases there is nothing to give in to.

Again, I am not trying to bash or be racist toward anyone. Im Middle Eastern myself and I know what its like to be categorized. However, there are certain traits that exist in certain cultures moreso than others. This seems to be one of them. Again, I reiterate that this is much, much more common among Indians and South Asians that have not been here in the US for more than a couple of years or when I deal with people in India directly. I rarely experience it with my Indian clientele that has been in the US for longer than that. Lets face it, things in India are different than they are here. I travel there once a year or so on business and the practices are simply different.
But you did not answer my question - how can anyone get out of paying auto taxes? Who set the precedent that other Indians apparently want to follow of getting away without paying auto taxes? Why would Indians who are predominantly on non-immigrant visas want to try something stupid like that and risk getting deported?

I meet a fee-only CFP once a year and pay about $500 an hour for info I have already mostly gathered from the internet - and although he talks about various forms of tax optimization & tax sheltering, I have never heard from him about buying a car without paying taxes on it!
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Willowbend/Houston
13,384 posts, read 25,639,443 times
Reputation: 10591
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingtoDFW View Post
But you did not answer my question - how can anyone get out of paying auto taxes? Who set the precedent that other Indians apparently want to follow of getting away without paying auto taxes? Why would Indians who are predominantly on non-immigrant visas want to try something stupid like that and risk getting deported?

I meet a fee-only CFP once a year and pay about $500 an hour for info I have already mostly gathered from the internet - and although he talks about various forms of tax optimization & tax sheltering, I have never heard from him about buying a car without paying taxes on it!
Im not specifically refering to auto taxes.

What I said was: "someone hears from a friends that they can do something completely unbelievable (like not paying taxes on a car)".

I used that as an example of something that is unbelievable that could be used to bargain. I work in corporate airfare analysis and as an airline analyst. Ive had clients in India try to get me to fudge reports or try to bargain on my service using intimidation after the contracts are negotiated. That hits close to home.

The most recent example I had was the one I mentioned where a friend of mines father is trying to use his friends house purchase in a different neighborhood, 5 years ago, to bargain with his realtor.

Last edited by Cowboys fan in Houston; 02-11-2013 at 04:08 PM..
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
8,057 posts, read 12,808,352 times
Reputation: 6318
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingtoDFW View Post
But you did not answer my question - how can anyone get out of paying auto taxes? Who set the precedent that other Indians apparently want to follow of getting away without paying auto taxes? Why would Indians who are predominantly on non-immigrant visas want to try something stupid like that and risk getting deported?

I meet a fee-only CFP once a year and pay about $500 an hour for info I have already mostly gathered from the internet - and although he talks about various forms of tax optimization & tax sheltering, I have never heard from him about buying a car without paying taxes on it!
Nobody can get out of it, a dealer pays these fees to the state, they would lose thier license if they didn't pay all state fees. A dealership might have reduced the sales price by the amount of the TT&L, but the dealership still paid it.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:14 PM
 
263 posts, read 409,029 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme02 View Post
Im not specifically refering to auto taxes.

What I said was: "someone hears from a friends that they can do something completely unbelievable (like not paying taxes on a car)".

I used that as an example of something that is unbelievable that would be used to bargain. I work in corporate airfare analysis and as an airline analyst. Ive had clients in India try to get me to fudge reports or try to bargain on my service using intimidation after the contracts are negotiated. That hits close to home.

The most recent example I had was the one I mentioned where a friend of mines father is trying to use his friends house purchase in a different neighborhood, 5 years ago, to bargain with his realtor.
So, although you do not know of an example of somebody not paying auto taxes, but from your general awareness of Indians believe them capable of it? Please correct me if I am wrong.

I am sure there is corporate accounts fudging in India. I know for a fact there is corporate accounts fudging in the US. I am not as convinced on your clients intimidating you part - culturally, Indians are not all that into intimidation and do not do that very well.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:35 PM
 
21 posts, read 37,308 times
Reputation: 59
I have to set the record straight here guys, and don't worry it's not racist because I too am Indian. Calling an Indian cheap is like saying African American men have big.......feet.

We are usually proud of our cheapness, it's not really an insult. I guess if people were trying to be nasty about it then it would be an issue. The stereotype of indians being cheap has some truth to it. And yes i agree with MovingtoDFW that Indians do spend money, a lot of money actually on things like education, weddings(waaay to much on weddings), kids, homes. But thee are a lot that Indians will not typically spend a lot of money on...like cars, clothes, entertainment in general, restaurants, and yes landscaping as much of this thread was about. Landscaping part is true, if I drive around on Sunday afternoon through the neighborhood the only people i see planting tulips and trimming bushes are white. Caucasians definitely have more pride about their lawn and landscaping and this probably goes way back to the old days.

However, I would disagree that you can point out an Indian's lawn in this day and age. This may have been true 15 years ago but now if there is a lawn issue then it needs to be taken up with Jorge's lawn service. Indians may not have all the fancy flowers and stuff but usually i would say the lawn is in pretty decent shape(but again this not through any effort of their own).

I really don't have much of an issue with people sharing their opinions even if it's controversial except for Rakin, how are you gonna be a real estate agent and call out people you have to do business with. If i put my house for sale and you gave me an offer I would contact the buyer directly and tell them to change agents and then we'd have a deal! Then I'd come to your house and mow your lawn to write KARMA is a B! Then all the indians in your neighborhood can tell their friends "I can point out where the dumb white guy lives in our neighborhood just by looking at his lawn!"
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:49 AM
 
323 posts, read 631,550 times
Reputation: 265
Don't take us back to the landscape issue, thread moved towards fraudulent tactics of car salesmen few posts ago. ;-)
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
8,057 posts, read 12,808,352 times
Reputation: 6318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bypass13 View Post
Don't take us back to the landscape issue, thread moved towards fraudulent tactics of car salesmen few posts ago. ;-)
A salesman thinks it is wrong for his company to lose money on a sale. And this is fraudulent. Yes, it is definitely time to move on.
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