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I have extensive experience with both schools. I really think they are both wonderful environments and obviously the main difference is that one is all girls and one is coed.
They are my two favorite schools in the metroplex because of their environments. A lot of the private schools are either religious or hold an old money, elitist attitude (see St. Marks or ESD). Greenhill and Hockaday are both open environments, although Greenhill is the more progressive of the two.
If you are looking at standardized test scores and college admissions solely, Hockaday would edge out Greenhill. But that's not to say one should rule out Greenhill because it still has high test scores and its share of Ivy admissions. If your child has the talent to go to an ivy they can do so at either school, but as long as they are hardworking students at either school they will go somewhere good for college.
I really do think it is hard to find ANYTHING at the caliber of these private schools at the area public schools. Although the AP programs at public schools are good, they never stack up with the academic intensity and college admissions to places like Greenhill and Hockaday. What the question really comes down to is money, and if you can comfortably afford the private schools then they are worth it, but if you cannot, your child can certainly still excel if they are a hard worker in public school.
You must remember that at either of these schools there is a LARGE percentage of students going to Top 20 US colleges. If your child puts in the effort to make it to a top university at one of these schools, then there is a very good chance they will be accepted. In public schools, it takes a lot more work to stand out and be placed into one of these schools.
I agree with a lot of what HockDad said above. It ultimately comes down to what your child and your family feels will be the better environment. The differences between SAT scores and college admissions between the two are negligible at best. But if youre lucky enough to have the opportunity to have children enrolled at these schools, I do not think its something that should be turned down
To respond to a few of your questions:
1. I have children at Greenhill and Lamplighter and lots of good friend's children at Hockaday and St. Marks
2. Greenhill does have PE everyday for my middle schooler. I believe its the same way for Lower School but my kids were at Lamplighter then
3. Student-Teacher ratios are low at both schools and theres usually about 13-15 kids in the classes we have had at Greenhill, sometimes smaller
I'm not trying to be provocative but is it really like comparing Harvard and Stanford or more like Northwestern and UChicago? Nationally, neither school seems to be well recognized and Ivy admissions rates seem rather low compared to the top prep schools in the nation. I understand that St Marks and Hockaday are tops in Dallas but I don't understand exactly why. It seems from your response that Hockaday and Greenhill are basically comparable from an academic point of view so is the popularity due in large part to Hockaday just having the cache that a newer school like Greenhill does not have? Was Greenhill the school that the Jewish community went to because Hockaday/St Marks didn't accept Jews back in the day? If Hockaday is everyone's first choice because that's where the Dallas establishment sends their kids, then I couldn't care less. But if it's everyone's first choice because there is a difference in academic rigor, then I do care. Seems like the former but who knows. I was googling and noticed a survey conducted by Worth magazine, from about 10 yrs ago, that ranked schools by admissions to Harvard, Yale and Princeton, and Greenhill was 37, St Marks was 100 and Hockaday didn't even make the cut. Has Greenhill just deteriorated in the past decade (recognizing there's more to a school than just getting into HYP)?
I think you might be considering the wrong source when looking at national reputation. You seem to be considering prestigious "lists.". I would tell you that a better source would be college admission counselors. Hockaday sends numerous students to Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Princeton every year. In fact, another posted referenced that it sent 10 students to these four schools two years ago. That is large amount of a graduating class going to arguably one of the top four schools in the country.
Specifically, approximately 40 percent of the students go to top 25 schools and 60 percent leave Texas. The 40 percent might seem low until you consider that prestigious small liberal arts schools are not considered nor are the numerous kids that study overseas at st Andrews or Oxford. Furthermore, there are numerous fine schools, like Texas, unc, Williams, Amherst, Boston college, William Mary, NYC, , that are great schools, but not technically top 25.
My daughter has only been there 7 years but I can tell you I am blown away every time I look at the schools the girls are going to for college. You might think that Hockaday and greenhill don't have national reputations, but they do with the people that matter most.
In the case of more than a handful of Hockaday/ St Mark's / other elite Dallas prep school grads, they aren't mere "legacies", they are the children and grandchildren of those for whom buildings and entire schools at UT, SMU, and A&M were named, or the children/ grandchildren of the board of regents and other highly connected alumni.
I went to one of our flagship state schools with a Hockaday grad whose family name was on a major building on campus. Her family had not only given millions to the school, but she grew up being allowed on the field at football games, having the cheerleaders at her childhood birthday parties, having the mascot visit her family's annual party the night before the "big game". I don't think it would have ever occurred to her to look elsewhere- this school, an excellent school, was a big part of her life from the moment she was born.
Gerald ford has his name on the smu stadium and two girls at Hockaday. I don't think anyone will be surprised if his daughters go to smu.
Well, if you don't have long-term plans in Texas - that is, if you won't be here long enough for your kid to graduate from Hockaday/Greenhill - then it doesn't matter. Your real concern will be gaining admission to some other prep school in another city. To that end, either one of these schools will serve you well, as those schools can see that your kid was in the deep end of the DFW private school pool
I guess this goes to the heart of the matter... . We will likely be elsewhere (not in Texas) for high school and I think it helps to transfer from a school that people have heard of (all other things being equal of course). I agree with the poster who said that what matters is reputation among the people who matter the most.
I don't come from old money so it's hard for me to relate to people like the Fords of the world. The concept of going to a school that your parents and their parents have gone to just because that's what's expected seems to be a very insular way of looking at the world. I understand in situations where legacy helps get you in to a place you would otherwise not (think Bush and Yale) but assuming you could, why wouldn't you want to experience college somewhere different and new? But this is off topic...
I have extensive experience with both schools. I really think they are both wonderful environments and obviously the main difference is that one is all girls and one is coed.
They are my two favorite schools in the metroplex because of their environments. A lot of the private schools are either religious or hold an old money, elitist attitude (see St. Marks or ESD). Greenhill and Hockaday are both open environments, although Greenhill is the more progressive of the two.
If you are looking at standardized test scores and college admissions solely, Hockaday would edge out Greenhill. But that's not to say one should rule out Greenhill because it still has high test scores and its share of Ivy admissions. If your child has the talent to go to an ivy they can do so at either school, but as long as they are hardworking students at either school they will go somewhere good for college.
I really do think it is hard to find ANYTHING at the caliber of these private schools at the area public schools. Although the AP programs at public schools are good, they never stack up with the academic intensity and college admissions to places like Greenhill and Hockaday. What the question really comes down to is money, and if you can comfortably afford the private schools then they are worth it, but if you cannot, your child can certainly still excel if they are a hard worker in public school.
You must remember that at either of these schools there is a LARGE percentage of students going to Top 20 US colleges. If your child puts in the effort to make it to a top university at one of these schools, then there is a very good chance they will be accepted. In public schools, it takes a lot more work to stand out and be placed into one of these schools.
I agree with a lot of what HockDad said above. It ultimately comes down to what your child and your family feels will be the better environment. The differences between SAT scores and college admissions between the two are negligible at best. But if youre lucky enough to have the opportunity to have children enrolled at these schools, I do not think its something that should be turned down
To respond to a few of your questions:
1. I have children at Greenhill and Lamplighter and lots of good friend's children at Hockaday and St. Marks
2. Greenhill does have PE everyday for my middle schooler. I believe its the same way for Lower School but my kids were at Lamplighter then
3. Student-Teacher ratios are low at both schools and theres usually about 13-15 kids in the classes we have had at Greenhill, sometimes smaller
Very helpful, thanks. It's always nice to get insights from current parents. Thanks to Hockdad as well. Re Greenhill, which we like a lot (and thus trying to understand everyone's obsession with Hockaday and its status as everyone's first choice), are there a lot of cliques or bullying? It's an issue that concerns me a lot and I'm curious to know what schools do to address it. Especially if you're the new kid in school. Will it be difficult to fit in and make friends?
Also, I read on this post about some turmoil at the middle school leading to an exodus of middle schoolers to different schools. Do you know what that's all about? The poster seemed to imply that it had to do with bullying. Is there any truth to that?
And finally, do the lower school kids use all of the facilities available on campus or are they pretty much in their classrooms all day? I'm used to subsidizing the high school with my tuition dollars but would like to know that the younger kids also make some use of the gym, pool, art studios, library, etc.
Very helpful, thanks. It's always nice to get insights from current parents. Thanks to Hockdad as well. Re Greenhill, which we like a lot (and thus trying to understand everyone's obsession with Hockaday and its status as everyone's first choice), are there a lot of cliques or bullying? It's an issue that concerns me a lot and I'm curious to know what schools do to address it. Especially if you're the new kid in school. Will it be difficult to fit in and make friends?
Also, I read on this post about some turmoil at the middle school leading to an exodus of middle schoolers to different schools. Do you know what that's all about? The poster seemed to imply that it had to do with bullying. Is there any truth to that?
And finally, do the lower school kids use all of the facilities available on campus or are they pretty much in their classrooms all day? I'm used to subsidizing the high school with my tuition dollars but would like to know that the younger kids also make some use of the gym, pool, art studios, library, etc.
Thanks!
Absolutely not! The bullying "issue" was an unfortunate occurrence of a few bad seeds in what is now the freshmen class (this occured 2 years ago). Nothing really came of it and the kids involved where asked to leave and do not attend Greenhill any longer. Greenhill handled it very well and firmly and made it clear that they would not stand for that type of behavior. I would go as far to say its a school where some of the least bullying occurs in all of the metroplex and besides that isolated incident no one I know has ever had a problem with it.
Cliques do not seem to be a problem. Greenhill's diversity adds to its open environment and mostly all kids seem to make friends and find places where they are comfortable. Like Hockaday, friend groups at these schools seem to be less focused on socioeconomic status or race, everyone seems to be pretty well integrated.
Lastly, although the Lower Schoolers stay in the Lower School more comparatively to the middle or upper schoolers, they certainly go all over campus. There is an entire section of the library devoted to the lower school, they go to the gym everyday, the cafeteria, the pool, etc. They sometimes go to the fine arts building although I know Lower school has its own fine arts oriented classrooms The only buildings I can think of where Lower schools don't go are the middle school, upper school, and science building (kids start going there in 7th grade- the other science classrooms are integrated into the other buildings). So although some of your money will be going to other parts of campus, the Lower School students will be utilizing most of the campus (although the new Lower School building is excellent- I wouldn't want to leave if I was a student )
Feel free to ask me any more questions about Greenhill or Hockaday. I love both schools and know about them pretty extensively
Absolutely not! The bullying "issue" was an unfortunate occurrence of a few bad seeds in what is now the freshmen class (this occured 2 years ago). Nothing really came of it and the kids involved where asked to leave and do not attend Greenhill any longer. Greenhill handled it very well and firmly and made it clear that they would not stand for that type of behavior. I would go as far to say its a school where some of the least bullying occurs in all of the metroplex and besides that isolated incident no one I know has ever had a problem with it.
Cliques do not seem to be a problem. Greenhill's diversity adds to its open environment and mostly all kids seem to make friends and find places where they are comfortable. Like Hockaday, friend groups at these schools seem to be less focused on socioeconomic status or race, everyone seems to be pretty well integrated.
Lastly, although the Lower Schoolers stay in the Lower School more comparatively to the middle or upper schoolers, they certainly go all over campus. There is an entire section of the library devoted to the lower school, they go to the gym everyday, the cafeteria, the pool, etc. They sometimes go to the fine arts building although I know Lower school has its own fine arts oriented classrooms The only buildings I can think of where Lower schools don't go are the middle school, upper school, and science building (kids start going there in 7th grade- the other science classrooms are integrated into the other buildings). So although some of your money will be going to other parts of campus, the Lower School students will be utilizing most of the campus (although the new Lower School building is excellent- I wouldn't want to leave if I was a student )
Feel free to ask me any more questions about Greenhill or Hockaday. I love both schools and know about them pretty extensively
Boy, I'm having a hard time not responding with some specific examples that fly in the face of your claims about Greenhill. I'm going to give myself a 24 hour time out to ponder before responding.
EDS_: It seems like you have some negative things to say about Greenhill. I'm another parent wose child was accepted and would be interrested to know the negatives. Feel free to PM if you dont want to write them here.
Nakold23: Your positive spin is like most others i have heard from. I'm curious if you mind sharing what you think the school does better than the competition and what things it could improve upon (we all know theres always room for improvement).
EDS_: It seems like you have some negative things to say about Greenhill. I'm another parent wose child was accepted and would be interrested to know the negatives. Feel free to PM if you dont want to write them here.
Nakold23: Your positive spin is like most others i have heard from. I'm curious if you mind sharing what you think the school does better than the competition and what things it could improve upon (we all know theres always room for improvement).
I'll DM you later. As I tell everyone who asks - I know about a few very specific, very real, and 100% verified issues with Greenhill and some students that bother me. I also tell everyone who asks GH is a great school that they should strongly consider.
EDS_: It seems like you have some negative things to say about Greenhill. I'm another parent wose child was accepted and would be interrested to know the negatives. Feel free to PM if you dont want to write them here.
Nakold23: Your positive spin is like most others i have heard from. I'm curious if you mind sharing what you think the school does better than the competition and what things it could improve upon (we all know theres always room for improvement).
Yes of course.
There are many things I feel like Greenhill could improve on. Sometimes I think there is an over-emphasis on diversity (not like its a bad thing) but I feel like students from different backgrounds are held to a higher esteem in the admissions process. I think the science department is lacking and could use an overhaul (and the facilities could as well) especially with Science becoming so important for the prospective job market. I also think Greenhill's college counseling departments should broaden their horizons a little bit. Greenhill does VERY well in admission to some schools (Yale as the go-to Ivy, Tulane as a good backup school, WashU very popular for middle of the class students, etc) but Hockaday does a better job at a more broad range of relationships with colleges. Some of the busy work should be toned down especially in the middle and lower schools with an emphasis on more necessary homework.
What we do well, well obviously I am a fan of the school so there are many things I like. Diversity and the progressive environments open it up to all types of students and diversity. Kids seem to fit in really well and everyone I know is happy with where their kids are socially. I love the campus and the faculty, I think they have wonderful English and history departments and the classes are interesting. Athletics are always solid and as long as your child isn't a superstar athlete who wants an extremely high caliber of competition, they are more than sufficient. The arts at the school are also wonderful. This year, the Video production class placed 7 of the 21 movies accepted into the prestigious South By Southwest high school short film competition. There are many outlets for the students and everyone is very friendly.
I know EDS's claims Moderator cut: orphaned and they are definitely alarming and should not of happened at ANY school, but I, or anyone I know have not encountered anything like that recently besides the bullying incident of 2 years ago.
Last edited by BstYet2Be; 03-19-2012 at 06:53 AM..
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. We will likely be elsewhere (not in Texas) for high school and I think it helps to transfer from a school that people have heard of (all other things being equal of course). I agree with the poster who said that what matters is reputation among the people who matter the most. 
but would like to know that the younger kids also make some use of the gym, pool, art studios, library, etc.
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