Greenhill vs Hockaday (Austin, Princeton, Howe: legal, assessment, design)

[gsoy]

Your post really concerns me. No person gets selected to HYPMS without stellar academics, their acceptance rates lurk around 5% and they have a very large pool to select from, each one of those spots are very well deserved.

Originally Posted by Vagabond007

This year’s Hockaday class had great placement and are a strong batch that does not repeat.

Many get selected to HYPMS and other top schools due to sports/legacy/underrepresented minority status so more is at play than quality of education at school.

St Marks had similar or better record couple of years back but has been more modest now.

So if your kids are still young don’t extend yourself to send them to these schools.

[UnfairPark]

Originally Posted by gsoy

Your post really concerns me. No person gets selected to HYPMS without stellar academics, their acceptance rates lurk around 5% and they have a very large pool to select from, each one of those spots are very well deserved.

If you are familiar with HYPSM admission process, you should know better, well-deserved is a very loose term. Every admission officer says they've rejected better applicants and selected verse. After a basic qualifying criterion, its only about a jigsaw puzzle and pieces which complete it. Its a common sentiment of admission officers that they can switch whole class with waiting list and there will be no difference among both groups.

If you take two identical applicants and switch their race, geography or position on team or orchestra, it can completely change their odds of admissions. Job of admission officer is to find students for every department, for every team, from every region, every race and to satisfy enrollment and financial bottom lines. They aren't looking for well deserved but well suited for their given needs. They have to satisy alumni, donors, celebrities and connections as well. They have to mind rankings lists and yield and financial bottom lines. Its a complicated process and they mean well but by no means its purely merit, unbiased or fool proof.

[gsoy]

Sure, it is not purely merit based, we all know that. My point is you cannot discredit Hockaday's success (or any other school's for that matter) just because some of those HYPSM admits are athletes or unrepresented minorities.Two points really: (1) Those athletes or minority students would not have been accepted if they were not well "suited" academically as well. (2) I am sure a school like Plano West for example has a much larger pool of athletes or underrepresented minorities that these schools can pick from (can't make the same claim for legacies, not sure).

[Vagabond007]

Originally Posted by gsoy

Sure, it is not purely merit based, we all know that. My point is you cannot discredit Hockaday's success (or any other school's for that matter) just because some of those HYPSM admits are athletes or unrepresented minorities.Two points really: (1) Those athletes or minority students would not have been accepted if they were not well "suited" academically as well. (2) I am sure a school like Plano West for example has a much larger pool of athletes or underrepresented minorities that these schools can pick from (can't make the same claim for legacies, not sure).

Generally agree with your points.

Academically fairly average (top 5-10% of population vs. top 0.01%) can graduate from HYPMS - so all selected are "suited" academically.

However, meritocracy implies a clear rules based selection criteria that does not exist in college admissions. You just need to take a look at GPA vs SAT score scatter-gram to spot those selected due to one-off special criteria.

Parents should factor that into their consideration for considering private education. If your kid is very strong academically (say would be in top 5% at Hockaday), don't assume they have high likelihood of getting into HYPMS unless they have special hook, just because 5-10% of Hockaday class may be going to HYPMS.

[UnfairPark]

Getting in is only half the battle, unless there is substancial financial aid involved (unlikely for many who can pay Hockaday/St Marks fee for 13 years), affording cost of attendence can be an issue if you don't have enough savings. Don't count on average pay, you ain't average so you get the privilege to pay special full price, which can be as high as eighty thosand dollars per annum after adding all expenses.

[numbersguy100]

Originally Posted by Vagabond007

Generally agree with your points.

Academically fairly average (top 5-10% of population vs. top 0.01%) can graduate from HYPMS - so all selected are "suited" academically.

However, meritocracy implies a clear rules based selection criteria that does not exist in college admissions. You just need to take a look at GPA vs SAT score scatter-gram to spot those selected due to one-off special criteria.

Parents should factor that into their consideration for considering private education. If your kid is very strong academically (say would be in top 5% at Hockaday), don't assume they have high likelihood of getting into HYPMS unless they have special hook, just because 5-10% of Hockaday class may be going to HYPMS.

I agree that no one should stretch for private school tuition they can't afford, nor should they send a kid to Hockaday under the assumption that Harvard admission is assured. But you're very misled about the intelligence and work ethic required to be top 5% at Hockaday. Such a young woman is well beyond "very strong academically". In that case their special hook is being top 5% at one of the better private schools in the country.

[Vagabond007]

The article in NYT covers some aspects of how top schools override meritocracy:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/u...T.nav=top-news

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by Vagabond007

The article in NYT covers some aspects of how top schools override meritocracy:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/u...T.nav=top-news

I hope Harvard is crushed by that lawsuit. It should be forced by court order to publish past admit vs. non-admit decision metrics going back decades.

Harvard is now doing to Asian extraction students precisely what it did to jewish students in the early to middle 1900s.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by EDS_

I hope Harvard is crushed by that lawsuit. It should be forced by court order to publish past admit vs. non-admit decision metrics going back decades.

Harvard is now doing to Asian extraction students precisely what it did to jewish students in the early to middle 1900s.

Please excuse the auto-quote.......sorry I didn't capitalize Jewish above - too late to edit.

[hbdwihdh378y9]

Originally Posted by UnfairPark

If you are familiar with HYPSM admission process, you should know better, well-deserved is a very loose term.

And his grammar is atrocious.