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Well this certainly provides a small amount of perspective that I have looked for hard data on, that I have come to the conclusion can not be found. Comparing high school quality from state to state, region to region.
I have been holding some districts down there in very high regard, but when I put them against where my high school ranks, they don't look quite as good.
Oh well..
If you're trying to compare education in Texas to the Northeast/New England, let me save you the research. In 9 out of 10 cases, your schools are better. Your region has the highest percentage of educated citizens in the country. And outside the best of the best in Texas, we're mediocre.
If you're trying to compare education in Texas to the Northeast/New England, let me save you the research. In 9 out of 10 cases, your schools are better. Your region has the highest percentage of educated citizens in the country. And outside the best of the best in Texas, we're mediocre.
Good to hear it out loud..I mean I still love it down there, I think I just have to be very selective and make sure we land in a good district, or go private if we can swing it.
I was reading this a few minutes ago. One thing to note is their listed passing rates are not passing rates, but rather the percent of all students who passed one AP exam (ie. you can fail five and pass one but boost the passing rate). I thought their methodology was especially confusing this time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80
Good catch! I missed that. Some of the area schools should be REALLY embarrassed with pass rates so low considering all a student had to do was eek out one little "3".....
Quote:
Originally Posted by PISDstudent
I worded my first post pretty badly, but the percent shown is out of all students, not just AP students. For example, 43% of all FloMo students took AP exams, and 32% of all FloMo students passes an AP exam, so (32/43) 74.4% of AP students at FloMo got at least one three, which is pretty respectable. On the other hand, DISD Irma L Rangel Young Women's Leadership School and the Judge Barefoot Law school should really be concerned...
The listed "pass rates" are actually something quite different. More precisely, they show the %age of graduates that leave school with at least one successful AP exam. Frankly, that might be a better metric than actual exam passing rates.
Updating these numbers using PISDStudent's methodology to reflect the %age of AP takers who passed at least one exam (not perfect, but a better approximation to "passing rate" than the unprocessed data)...
#1 - DISD TAG Magnet (100% pass rate)
#2 - DISD SEM Magnet (100% pass rate)
#37 - Westlake Academy (96% pass rate)
#558 - Plano Senior High School (88% pass rate)
#326 - Plano West (88% pass rate)
#542 - Southlake Carroll HS (88% pass rate)
#445 - Carrollton-FB ISD Creekview HS (87% pass rate)
#332 - Coppell High School (84% pass rate)
#836 - Flower Mound Marcus HS (83% pass rate)
#903 - Frisco Liberty HS (82% pass rate)
#919 - Lewisville ISD Hebron HS (82% pass rate)
#286 - DISD Irma L Rangel Young Women's Leadership School (39% pass rate)
#578 - DISD School of Health Professions (28% pass rate)
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OK, so what does that mean? To an extent, it's just "fun with numbers". But it does convey some useful information, in that it shows what schools are most successful with the AP-level students that they DO have, whatever that %age might be. Now, TurtleCreek80 will run to the defense of HPISD and point out that every single AP student in HPISD is required to take the AP exam, whereas it's optional for PISD kids. True enough, and it does skew the results. But still - the average AP test-taker at Plano East and at Highland Park both have a 76% chance of getting at least one AP credit out of the program.
Other schools of note from this analysis:
CFBISD Creekview - wow! Who woulda thunk it?
FISD Liberty - Well, that's the Asian school in that district. Just saying.
LISD Hebron - performing as well or better than the more-highly-regarded FM Marcus and Flower Mound.
Argyle - Very impressive for its demographics- I guess I know where to move if I ever want acreage.
DISD magnets (other than Booker T., SEM, and TAG) - as PISDStudent said (sorta) - LOLWUT?
Before everyone gets 100% tired-head, I'll rework the data with a simple sort by the listed "passing rate". I think this is actually an excellent metric (certainly better than the previous "how many AP tests can your kids flunk?" measure), since it indicates the %age of the school's graduates that have already demonstrated some ability to succeed at a college-level challenge level. I'll leave off all the schools below the 40% mark.
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#1 - DISD TAG Magnet (100% students took AP exams with 100% pass rate)
#2 - DISD SEM Magnet (100% students took AP exams with 100% pass rate)
#37 - Westlake Academy (96% students in IB program with 92% pass rate)
#92 - Highland Park HS (91% students took AP exams with 69% pass rate)
#134 - DISD Booker T Washington Arts Magnet (87% students took AP exams with 62% pass rate)
#326 - Plano West (57% students took AP exams with 50% pass rate)
#332 - Coppell High School (58% students took AP exams with 49% pass rate)
#445 - Carrollton-FB ISD Creekview HS (53% students took AP exams with 46% pass rate)
#417 - Colleyville Heritage HS (59% students took AP exams with 45% pass rate)
#542 - Southlake Carroll HS (49% took AP exams with 43% pass rate)
#558 - Plano Senior High School (48% took AP exams with 42% pass rate)
#461 - Lovejoy HS (66% students took AP exams with 41% pass rate)
#529 - Grapevine HS (56% took AP exams with 41% pass rate)
#551 - Richardson ISD's JJ Pearce HS (56% took AP exams with 40% pass rate)
#564 - Prosper HS (52% took AP exams with 40% pass rate)
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Now, that list looks more like the "usual suspects". No glaring omissions, and only 3 (IMO) surprises - CFBISD Creekview, Lovejoy, and Prosper. Paging CREW747 !
Couple things I've never understood about this list:
2. Where are Stuyvesant and Bronx Science? I'm proud of TAG and SEM as much as the next person but anyone can admit that they are not quite in the same league as those schools. I had read somewhere that U.S. News excluded the true top dozen or so performers in the nation, meaning then that TAG and SEM were top of everyone else.
I've always considered TJ in line with Stuy and Bronx so I wouldn't put them in the same category with TAG and SEM. They've produced dozens of Intel winners, a couple of Nobels, SAT scores in the stratosphere, etc., etc.
Under the current methodology all public, public magnet and public charter schools are eligible for ranking. Stuy and Bronx Science are both on the U.S. News list at #58 and #63 respectively. Their relatively low position on the list compared with TJ, TAG and SEM seems to be related to the fact that students at Stuy and Bronx Science actually take and pass a fairly low number of AP tests per student and this is the primary driver of the rankings in the Gold Medal category. The Texas Academy of Math and Science doesn't seem to be on the list, but it may be considered a private school since it charges tuition.
Area schools who were named to US News' "Best High Schools 2012" list are listed below. It basically supports what I usually say on these boards which is that HP, Plano West and Coppell are the three best public high schools in our area (far better than the rest of their public peers)....and that the DISD magnets kick butt year after year after year in the national rankings.
As always, thanks for the info. I have my qualms with the rankings because they place such a high value on %age of students taking AP tests, but data is data, if I don't like those rankings I can always add drop the values into excel, add some other variables and come up with my own rankings (as you may have noticed I also value SAT/ACT results, but that's me, YMMV, one could add in %age of NMSFs or various non-core programs, etc).
It's good data to add into the mix, and in the end (other than parental involvement and influence) how comfortable a child feels at a school will often matter more than a small %age difference in AP pass rates or 20 more points on the SAT average or whatever.
Some other schools that frequently come up on City-Data: DISD Woodrow Wilson - not recognized b/c general student body & minority groups don't perform above the state aveage. AP participation rate was 41% with a 43% pass rate which supports my theory that Woodrow is only good academically for those students who operate within the "school within the school" (IB academy, AP courses, etc). The school fails the general student body from an academic standpoint.
RISD Lake Highlands -not recognized b/c minorty groups perform below state average. AP participation rate of 40% with a 62% passing rate.
Frisco Wakeland HS - not recognize b/c minority groups perform below state average. AP participation rate of 35% with a 78% pass rate.
Frisco Heritage HS - did not report results. Is this school too new for results?
McKinney Boyd HS - not recognize b/c minority groups perform below state average. AP participation rate of 56% with a 68% pass rate.
Woodrow has a large number of talented and gifted students (and going up even more with the advent of IB) but it also has 20% of the school population in special education and 20% limited English proficient. Also around 55% of the student body is economically disadvantaged (this is an old figure). Woodrow, Long and Stonewall Jackson all house the regional school for the deaf and each took a hit on state rankings when the special education students began to be counted. That being said, yes there are a lot of mediocre students who fall through the cracks - steps are being taken to correct that. New Principal Kyle Richardson was able to do that at Marsh Middle School. However, many times it is a motivation problem that I don't think can be entirely blamed on the school itself. This does not seem to hamper the top students as some would also theorize. Many times kids are in the same classrooms for certain subjects with great teachers but they do not take advantage of the situation. However the opportunity is there (as opposed to many other schools) - read this and you will see what I mean:
I think this gets at an issue which is constantly conflated when discussing school performance. The question of "how well is the school doing," i.e. "how well are the teachers/admins doing their jobs," is conceptually distinct from "how strong is the school," i.e. "what kind of level is the school performing at."
The first question matters for how to evaluate, reward and praise educators for being good at what they do, or not, but the second question probably matters more for those looking to choose a school for their kid.
So, if you have a great school staff doing amazing work getting many poor/ESL kids up to grade level (i.e. Bonham Elementary?), the staff should be recognized for doing amazing work (and the kids too, of course), but that still may not be the school you want, if you want to surround your kid with super-high achievers.
Or, if you have a school that gets to take in the top few percent of all students every year (i.e. Harvard, St. Mark's, Stuyvesant, TAG...), then those kids so amazing work, well, that doesn't necessarily mean the teachers are all wonderful, but that still may be where you want to send your kid.
So, looking at this list based on student AP achievement, it is great to know where many kids are doing great work, but unless you know where the kids are coming from, how much can you really credit the school for being a "great school"? I may still want to send my kids to Harvard, Plano West, Stuyvesant, etc., but it doesn't necessarily mean the teaching staff or the school itself deserves all the credit for the "top ranking."
Couple things I've never understood about this list:
1. TAG and SEM are magnets, yet they have a separate category for magnets. "Magnet schools are public schools that attract the most talented students in a region via an application process, often involving test scores and grade point averages. U.S. News brings you its list of the nation's best magnet schools."
How can TAG and SEM (or Thomas Jefferson, for that matter) possibly be compared to a Plano or HP that have no admission requirements?
2. Where are Stuyvesant and Bronx Science? I'm proud of TAG and SEM as much as the next person but anyone can admit that they are not quite in the same league as those schools. I had read somewhere that U.S. News excluded the true top dozen or so performers in the nation, meaning then that TAG and SEM were top of everyone else.
I've always considered TJ in line with Stuy and Bronx so I wouldn't put them in the same category with TAG and SEM. They've produced dozens of Intel winners, a couple of Nobels, SAT scores in the stratosphere, etc., etc.
I just look at national merit semifinalists as a % of the graduating class as well as the total number as the most objective ranking of a school's quality.
PISD and the top Dallas privates easily rank in the same league as the NYC exam schools, TJ, and the East Coast privates.
The local magnets are not on par with the top publics or privates in the area or even the middle tier of publics. The top students at the magnets would be in the middle of the "honors" group at the other schools.
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