Deep Ellum, Knox Henderson, Uptown, Oak Lawn or other for young professional "hipster"? (Houston: sublet, apartment)

[samwill89]

Hi all.

The short story:

Young professional with hipster leanings looking for pedestrian friendly, lively and down to earth area conducive to meeting similar people.

The longer story:

I last posted in this forum asking for assistance on which neighborhoods would be a good fit for someone like me (Austinite, young professional who eschews pretentious atmospheres, laidback, etc). Now I am in the process of moving into a sublet in Dallas from Austin. Still looking for a permanent place for July but would like to make a final decision after you all helped me narrow down the neighborhoods.

As a disclaimer, I use the word "hipster" to mean someone who has money, but isn't into things marketed to "upscale" consumers, not shallow, not in a rat race and desires friends with similar values.

I was leaning towards Deep Ellum due to its amazing and walkable built environment and the resurgence of low key pubs. However, I have seen on many review sites that the area is not as lively as it seems and property crimes (mainly vehicular break ins) are common. So should I really be concerned or are the crime anecdotes more apt for the area 5 years ago?

Knox Henderson seems like a good fit also since I would love access to the Katy Trail. It may have a similar vibe to Deep Ellum without the sketchiness. My concern is that it isn't as laid back and informal as I am accustomed to in Austin.

Many of you mentioned Oak Lawn (north of Turtle Creek) as a great place. I may agree, though I am very interested in a walkable lifestyle and Oak Lawn seems overly suburban to me.

Uptown would be perfect for me if I was into the $30K millionaire lifestyle. It is walkable, lively, and teeming with young people. I mention it because I don't want to make any wrong assumptions about the place, so please correct me if I get it wrong.

I have been told about other East Dallas neighborhoods like Junis Heights, Lower Greenville, M Streets, and the Villages. Though I am not sure if they are walkable enough.

I realize that I will not find the perfect place, but anything that balances my desires the right way would suffice.

The ideal response would note whether I am correct in my assessment of each neighborhood listed or would tell me which neighborhoods to definitely consider or not consider. Again, thanks for the suggestions and help.

[dallasboi]

Downtown.

[BigT3x]

Either Downtown or Deep Ellum. Deep Ellum's reputation for crime is largely undeserved. It has the same problems as any entertainment district, but the clueless suburbanites who go there for shows think its scary because it doesn't look like an office park.

[TurtleCreek80]

Possibly The Cedars/ SouthSide or Expo Park. I wouldn't worry about violent crime in Deep Ellum- it's very neighborly, just use common sense to stay safe.

Knox is pretty yuppie - Crate, Pottery Barn, Resto, Apple, etc line the streets.

[samwill89]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

I never thought about Downtown, though I have the impression that it isn't 24hrs and even more sketchy after dark than Deep Ellum.

My main concern about Deep Ellum isn't violence, it is every apartment review citing car break ins at even gated garages. I am still heavily in favor of the area, but the "largely undeserved" and "just use common sense" comments are not assuaging my concerns as much as they should. Is it more up and coming? Or has Deep Ellum arrived?

Also, thanks for dispelling my notions of Knox Henderson. The Cedars does seem very nice. I would have a reverse commute to the 75 and 635 area. I would imagine commuting through or near Downtown from the south would essentially double my commute time.

I hope no one takes my skeptical responses with any ill. I am truly appreciative of all of the feedback and just hope to make the right decision.

[BigDGeek]

Dallas isn't really walkable.

Why are you coming to Dallas, anyway? To me you sound like someone who would be more comfortable in the northeast.

[BigT3x]

Originally Posted by samwill89

I never thought about Downtown, though I have the impression that it isn't 24hrs and even more sketchy after dark than Deep Ellum.

You have some pretty antiquated notions about Dallas. Sounds like you've been talking to people who lived in the DFW suburbs in the 90's. Downtown is a great place to live and the nightlife scene along Main Street is fun. Downtown is also safer than Deep Ellum.

You're going to be fine in any of the neighborhoods in this thread, but understand that Dallas is a lot bigger than Austin. Big city problems happen everywhere in big cities. There will always be a story somewhere for the local NBC affiliate to report on. 9 out of 10 people who live an urban lifestyle will never be a victim of a serious crime, but the stories will always keep the illogically fearful out in the suburbs harping on about the danger lurking around every corner.

[pepper131]

Here's my dumb question: what do you want to walk to in your neighborhood?
Restaurants?...ok...what kind?
Grocery store?...again what exactly?
Yoga?

First thought for you would be Skillman/Live Oak area. Or Vickery Place which would be near Henderson. I recently saw a sign for a carriage house on La Vista at Swiss - it's probably already gone though.

[samwill89]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

Dallas isn't really walkable.

Why are you coming to Dallas, anyway? To me you sound like someone who would be more comfortable in the northeast.

No. I do not like the urban Northeast; it is too segregated and unfriendly for me. I have a wonderful job offer from an office in Dallas. I am from Texas and have found the life I desired in Austin, which isn't in the Northeast. I am sure there are pockets of what I am looking for in Dallas just as there are in my hometown of Houston (Montrose, the East End, The Heights). I had an offer in New York, but I am not looking for something too dense and anonymous.

Originally Posted by BigT3x

You have some pretty antiquated notions about Dallas. Sounds like you've been talking to people who lived in the DFW suburbs in the 90's. Downtown is a great place to live and the nightlife scene along Main Street is fun. Downtown is also safer than Deep Ellum.

You're going to be fine in any of the neighborhoods in this thread, but understand that Dallas is a lot bigger than Austin. Big city problems happen everywhere in big cities. There will always be a story somewhere for the local NBC affiliate to report on. 9 out of 10 people who live an urban lifestyle will never be a victim of a serious crime, but the stories will always keep the illogically fearful out in the suburbs harping on about the danger lurking around every corner.

I figured some of my assumptions would be antiquated. The last time I spent any time downtown was in 2006, where I was accosted by homeless people twice. I know a lot of revitalization is underway, so things have certainly changed since then. I will look into some units near Main Street. It seems cheaper there. Also, I am assuming that I can find a good alternative scene there? I'm not into the fratty 6th Street type of nightlife or the urban/hip hop sort, though I don't know if Main Street is like that.

Originally Posted by pepper131

Here's my dumb question: what do you want to walk to in your neighborhood?
Restaurants?...ok...what kind?
Grocery store?...again what exactly?
Yoga?

First thought for you would be Skillman/Live Oak area. Or Vickery Place which would be near Henderson. I recently saw a sign for a carriage house on La Vista at Swiss - it's probably already gone though.

I would hope to live in an area where I could walk to restaurants of different cuisines and price ranges (depending on my mood), bars/lounges. I don't mind driving for groceries but I would like frequent access to fresh produce and seafood on foot if possible. Access to a recreational trail or park would be good for my dog and myself for exercising. I also just like the casual stroll to people watch. Just about anyplace where I could cover 80% of my non commuting errands on foot/transit would work. Or anything above an 80% on Walkscore.

As for your suggestions, I have never heard of these neighborhoods (which is probably appropriate given the hipster description). Are these neighborhoods mixed demographically (age and income wise)?

[pepper131]

They are mixed. You'll find a little bit of everything but most importantly you'll find lack of pretension.
Skillman/live oak will have more singles while Vickery has more families.
Skillman/Live oak are cross streets - it's doesn't really have a neighborhood name (its part of East Dallas). There's Tex Mex, Thai, Greasy Diner, pizza (at Cosmos), burgers at Lakewood Landing, upscale at Watels. Bars at Pour House, Cosmos and Landing. Produce at Coffee Company plus fresh roasted coffee. Coldest beer at ice cave inside Texaco.