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I just don't see the Rangers moving east, it seems like they embrace the hillbilly crowd. No disrespect to Rangers fans.
Rangers Ballpark is in a terrible location. Good family friendly atmosphere, but there is nothing but warehouses and old apartments surrounding the stadium. I was at a game recently and was just thinking how nice it would be to see the Fort Worth or Dallas skyline in the background behind the flagpoles instead of seeing absolutely nothing but boring suburbia. There are obviously some sports bars, but you have to drive to them. If it was built in Downtown Dallas or Uptown, you could walk to bars, take the train to games, etc. And like you, I don't know of any major league baseball stadiums that are built in the suburbs, besides Anaheim (though Southern California is a different beast). Baseball stadiums seem to always be built in the cores of cities...even minor league teams. DFW can't support two teams though, and I doubt we see the Rangers move from Arlington. The reason they moved there in the first place was because the mayor of Arlington at the time courted them (in between two major cities, etc.).
I'd rather see them in Fort Worth than where they are now. At least in Fort Worth, I could pay $10 and ride the TRE there and walk a few blocks to the stadium versus paying about the same for fuel to get to Arlington, $17 to park, still having to walk several blocks to the stadium, and have to deal with the absolute morons leaving the stadium who think stopping at the end of a freeway entrance ramp is an acceptable way to drive. Dallas would be even more convenient for me, but hell, we can't have everything...
You forgot about the San Francisco Bay Area (Giants, A's).
And being from the Bay Area (similar population numbers to DFW metro when you count the Bay Area pop correctly), trust me, you don't want to go down this path of multiple teams in one metro. In Bay Area, with Giants/A's, and Niners/Raiders, those teams don't get as much support as you do here with only Rangers or Cowboys. And worse yet, with the sheer number of teams, the Warriors and Sharks suffer from Giants/A's/Niners/Raiders overload, something Mavs/Stars don't have to deal with.
Plus in the Bay, for some reason, there is an issue with SF vs. SJ, especially a stigma from people in SF that major pro sports in SJ somehow don't count. You don't get that in the DFW metro (i.e., "Oh, screw the Rangers and Cowboys because they play in Arlington and not Dallas."), and multiple teams in the same sport could bring that on. You don't want any of it, IMHO.
Yup. The only metro areas with 2 baseball teams are New York, LA, Chicago (all 3 of which are much larger population wise than Dallas), the Bay Area, and ARGUABLY the greater DC area with Baltimore and Washington having teams. Washington has had a spotty history of supporting its own MLB franchise and it's an open question how successful this latest experiment will be.
Furthermore, DFW is just not a big "baseball" town. After the Rangers made it to the Series, it was news that they sold out Opening Day the next year (one of my co-workers was surprised and upset, as she really wanted to go and didn't expect that). Another co-worker and I (he from Boston, me from Chicago), just stared. The Red Sox and Cubs regularly sell out Opening day within an hour of tickets going on sale sometime in January.
The Rangers are drawing well this year (1st in the AL and second overall in fans per home game), but in 2011 they were 10th, in 2010 14th, in 2009 17th, and in 2008 25th. Obviously the fans will show up when they're playing well, but given that attendance history I do not see DFW as being able to support a second baseball franchise any time soon.
Contrast that with the type of revenue the Cowboys bring in from THEIR franchise (attendance 1st in each of the last 3 years with well over 100% of 'stadium capacity'. Yeah, I know the new stadium is part of that, but the fans still need to show up to fill it. The Cowboys have regularly been at or near the top of the "most valuable NFL franchise" lists for a long time). Heck, if it weren't for the fact that the Cowboys are so strongly associated with Dallas as THE football team, I'd say the metroplex has the kind of support for football that could allow for two teams in the NFL.
Realistically, the Metroplex cannot support two baseball teams. The only hope would be for Dallas to build the Rangers a stadium and have Rangers move.
With the success of Rangers Ballpark In Arlington, there's no way now that any new ballpark would be built in Dallas in my lifetime. The late, great Tommy Vandergriff (who helped bring the Rangers to D/FW) would never allow it to happen and still won't if he were still alive. Yes, it would be a nice thing to have, but there just isn't anything any of us can do about it now. Nobody in Dallas proper stood up in 1970 and '71 or we'd probably have a different situation now.
Maybe our grandchildren's children's children could build one by the time the incumbent field starts to deteriorate.
Yup. The only metro areas with 2 baseball teams are New York, LA, Chicago (all 3 of which are much larger population wise than Dallas), the Bay Area, and ARGUABLY the greater DC area with Baltimore and Washington having teams. Washington has had a spotty history of supporting its own MLB franchise and it's an open question how successful this latest experiment will be.
Furthermore, DFW is just not a big "baseball" town. After the Rangers made it to the Series, it was news that they sold out Opening Day the next year (one of my co-workers was surprised and upset, as she really wanted to go and didn't expect that). Another co-worker and I (he from Boston, me from Chicago), just stared. The Red Sox and Cubs regularly sell out Opening day within an hour of tickets going on sale sometime in January.
The Rangers are drawing well this year (1st in the AL and second overall in fans per home game), but in 2011 they were 10th, in 2010 14th, in 2009 17th, and in 2008 25th. Obviously the fans will show up when they're playing well, but given that attendance history I do not see DFW as being able to support a second baseball franchise any time soon.
Contrast that with the type of revenue the Cowboys bring in from THEIR franchise (attendance 1st in each of the last 3 years with well over 100% of 'stadium capacity'. Yeah, I know the new stadium is part of that, but the fans still need to show up to fill it. The Cowboys have regularly been at or near the top of the "most valuable NFL franchise" lists for a long time). Heck, if it weren't for the fact that the Cowboys are so strongly associated with Dallas as THE football team, I'd say the metroplex has the kind of support for football that could allow for two teams in the NFL.
Two things about pro baseball around here:
1. It was asinine not to build a dome to control the heat a bit.
2. It was asinine to build the park in Arlington instead of downtown Dallas.
Both of these oversights contribute to lots of people staying away.
Over that last many years with a couple of exceptions the Rangers have been in the top half of the American league in attendance. One can only wonder what attendance would be if the park was within a mile or two of downtown.
There is no way on earth the metroplex would support two MLB teams. Before the Rangers started going to world series a couple of years ago there was no wide spread support like there is now. And half of these "fans" will disappear once the Rangers aren't competing for first place anymore. The Cowboys are the only team in the metroplex supported by a die-hard fan base, win or lose. The Mavericks, Rangers, and Stars all see their attendance numbers nosedive when the wins stop coming. There's no way another baseball franchise is moving here.
The Rangers originally came to Arlington to a stadium that was already built. They didn't arbitrarily pick Arlington and then bring out the shovels. Vandergriff strategically recruited a "metroplex" team to his city in a stadium he already had.
I can get behind the idea of the Rangers moving to either downtown Dallas or Ft. Worth. I honestly wouldn't care which, because downtown baseball stadiums are great and there's rail access to either. I think moving the stadium to North Dallas would be a terrible idea - literally worse than being in Arlington - and it would alienate half of the Rangers' fanbase. I'm aware of North Dallas' endless sprawl, but there are only two cities that actually matter in the metroplex, and the ballpark at least makes sense that it's between those two cities. At the very least the Rangers have historical ties to Arlington. FC Dallas is the most poorly located franchise in all of DFW. I don't want the Rangers anywhere near Collin County.
Two things about pro baseball around here:
1. It was asinine not to build a dome to control the heat a bit.
2. It was asinine to build the park in Arlington instead of downtown Dallas.
Both of these oversights contribute to lots of people staying away.
Over that last many years with a couple of exceptions the Rangers have been in the top half of the American league in attendance. One can only wonder what attendance would be if the park was within a mile or two of downtown.
OK, I looked up historical attendance of the Rangers since the new ballpark was put up in 1994, as well as the 2 years before that. I'm using average per game and listing ranking. Some of this I already related in my earlier post
I still don't see DFW as supporting two MLB teams. Looking at the data, Texas drew slightly above average the 2 years before the new ballpark opened up. After that there was the predictable bump in attendance from the shiny new park that put Texas in the top 10 among all MLB teams and 3rd or 4th in the AL. After the first 4 years the lustre began to fade and they dropped down to being just at or slightly above average overall. Attendance nosedived in 2008, recovered a bit in 2009 and has picked up since then for obvious reasons.
But over the entire timeframe, I see a city with a sizable capacity ballpark doing just barely above average for all markets in attendance. I'd run the numbers for other comparable MSA's but it would take awhile. I note your comments about locating a stadium in Dallas, but will that draw in so many more "near Dallas" residents who aren't going to Arlington, and not take away those currently going there? Just how many additional baseball fans do you think that can pull in? In a "normal" year the Rangers draw just barely above MLB average. Would a second team and stadium in Dallas not take a substantial number of those fans away?
Saying "I don't think DFw can support two teams" is is hardly a knock on Dallas. Aside from the "big 3" of NY, Chicago, and LA, supporting 2 MLB teams is either iffy (Oakland is always trying to get by on a low revenue shoestring budget, and as noted, Washington has historically had issues supporting a team with Baltimore so close), or nonexistent (every other Metro area has only one MLB team). I think the population base necessary to support 2 MLB teams is awfully high, and Dallas isn't quite there yet.
As a baseball fan, I'm thrilled to see the interest in the Rangers and in MLB in general and hope it sticks even when the team's performance drops. But football (at all levels) casts an awfully long shadow here.
The Rangers already know they get most of their attendees from Dallas and Collin County. This was discussed many times while the team was being "auctioned" last year. The ballpark is also a bit large for an MLB park. Great when you are winning, really bad when you have no draw. Two smaller, more modern venues might be perfect.
I think it is often forgotten how large of a population the metroplex has as it comes upon 7 million. Some of these MLB metros aren't even half or even 1/3 of that. Its all about how ownership of each team runs it. Don't see anything far fetched.
As a property taxpayer in Dallas City since 1971 I am glad to see the feather merchants sticking it to others. The Cotton Bowl and Reunion Arena and the new BB and Hockey Arena are enough for me. I am glad that Arlington wants the new stadiums.
OK, I looked up historical attendance of the Rangers since the new ballpark was put up in 1994, as well as the 2 years before that. I'm using average per game and listing ranking. Some of this I already related in my earlier post
I still don't see DFW as supporting two MLB teams. Looking at the data, Texas drew slightly above average the 2 years before the new ballpark opened up. After that there was the predictable bump in attendance from the shiny new park that put Texas in the top 10 among all MLB teams and 3rd or 4th in the AL. After the first 4 years the lustre began to fade and they dropped down to being just at or slightly above average overall. Attendance nosedived in 2008, recovered a bit in 2009 and has picked up since then for obvious reasons.
But over the entire timeframe, I see a city with a sizable capacity ballpark doing just barely above average for all markets in attendance. I'd run the numbers for other comparable MSA's but it would take awhile. I note your comments about locating a stadium in Dallas, but will that draw in so many more "near Dallas" residents who aren't going to Arlington, and not take away those currently going there? Just how many additional baseball fans do you think that can pull in? In a "normal" year the Rangers draw just barely above MLB average. Would a second team and stadium in Dallas not take a substantial number of those fans away?
Saying "I don't think DFw can support two teams" is is hardly a knock on Dallas. Aside from the "big 3" of NY, Chicago, and LA, supporting 2 MLB teams is either iffy (Oakland is always trying to get by on a low revenue shoestring budget, and as noted, Washington has historically had issues supporting a team with Baltimore so close), or nonexistent (every other Metro area has only one MLB team). I think the population base necessary to support 2 MLB teams is awfully high, and Dallas isn't quite there yet.
As a baseball fan, I'm thrilled to see the interest in the Rangers and in MLB in general and hope it sticks even when the team's performance drops. But football (at all levels) casts an awfully long shadow here.
I didn't get the impression you were running the area down at all.
My point is that the Ranger's attendance suffers for a couple of key reasons - location and having an open air stadium in a hot weather locale.
Restated my claim is that if the park was domed and air conditioned lots more people would attend and further if the park was located near downtown or somewhere further north even more people would attend.
As a historical note much of the really bad attendance a few years ago directly jibes with the bankruptcy and sale of the team. Few want to go see a big market team with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball.
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