Texas 2012 AYP Results for Every Campus Statewide

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by padcrasher

Poppycock. These stats that Plano touts are just as dependent on inherit IQ levels than Southlake's stats are. Plano Plano Moderator cut: see note supporters have offered no evidence whatsoever the school district or a particular high school's teaching techniques move them farther up the ladder, any more than any other upper income school district around the area. I already posted data that the majority of their NMS was due to 1st generation Asian immigrants who've log an average IQ 10 points above caucasians.

Poppycock yourself.

If you go by name alone- and Asian names certainly stand out if they are the 1st generation kids to which you attribute all of Plano's NMSF success- there were 36 white/black/Hispanic kids in PISD named NMSF this year and 60 with Asian sounding names, total 96. Even if you count the Asian population in total, but don't count the Asian NMSF kids, this year's senior class in PISD was 1% NMSF. I suspect closer to 1.8-2% if you divide the non-Asian NMSF by the non-Asian population. That is STILL significantly higher than Carroll's 1.2%, which includes 2 Asians out of 8 total NMSF in the class of 2012. In fact, the non-Asian Carroll percent of class is really under 1% while PISD's is in the high 1% range.

What say you, Padcrasher??

[Big G]

Moderator cut: orphaned We're in the middle of a threadjack, but....

Originally Posted by padcrasher

I already posted data that the majority of their NMS was due to 1st generation Asian immigrants who've log an average IQ 10 points above caucasians.

Even if you throw out every Park, Kumar, or Lee (and who knows, some of those Lees might be non-Asian) in PISD, and even after accounting for the larger class size, the PISD list still is much longer than the Carroll one (which, last year, had only eight kids - two of them Asian).

Plano Moderator cut: see note supporters have offered no evidence whatsoever the school district or a particular high school's teaching techniques move them farther up the ladder, any more than any other upper income school district around the area.

Here's a post of mine from earlier this year with exactly that:

//www.city-data.com/forum/dalla...l#post23742231

Based on the cite, the PISD secondary science curriculum leads to far greater success in regional, state, and national science fairs that whatever Carroll ISD is (not) doing.

Y'all do have a better football team, and a much nicer stadium. I'll give you that.

[padcrasher]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

Poppycock yourself.

If you go by name alone- and Asian names certainly stand out if they are the 1st generation kids to which you attribute all of Plano's NMSF success- there were 36 white/black/Hispanic kids in PISD named NMSF this year and 60 with Asian sounding names, total 96. Even if you count the Asian population in total, but don't count the Asian NMSF kids, this year's senior class in PISD was 1% NMSF. I suspect closer to 1.8-2% if you divide the non-Asian NMSF by the non-Asian population. That is STILL significantly higher than Carroll's 1.2%, which includes 2 Asians out of 8 total NMSF in the class of 2012. In fact, the non-Asian Carroll percent of class is really under 1% while PISD's is in the high 1% range.

What say you, Padcrasher??

Using Asians as an example was only because there is "group" data on their average IQ levels, their percent of the student population, their share of the NMS scholarships. The same phenomena happens among whites. The higher inherent IQ levels rise to the top. That's explains the one statistic you keep harping on, just as it explains Southlakes's bettter criteria you dismiss.

The two districts Bell curves have slightly different shapes. Has little if anything to do with Plano's teaching performance.

[PISDstudent]

Originally Posted by padcrasher

The two districts Bell curves have slightly different shapes.

Assuming you're correct:
But this has so much to do with the overall educational experience. At least to me, having a large community of highly intelligent people is more valuable than what I can get from any teacher. Having 30-40 NMSFs in a school is more than a number- it shows that there is a large group of students who can, and do, enagage each other. Having these students is what creates the culture of excellence that I think other posters are referencing, and its something that not many other schools can mimic. This community and culture does help inspire the All-State musicians, ISEF winners, and the country's fourth best speech/debate team. Anyone who values this in Plano can take part in that community, and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Of course, I would argue that this allows the district to attract great teachers. Since we're talking about high-achievers, if you're taking AP classes in PISD, it's not unusual to have a teacher who has written the AP exam. That level of expertise can be pretty helpful.

Since you mention gifted Asian students, with families that emphasize education, do you ever wonder why they chose Plano ISD over any other district?

[padcrasher]

Originally Posted by PISDstudent

Assuming you're correct:
But this has so much to do with the overall educational experience. At least to me, having a large community of highly intelligent people is more valuable than what I can get from any teacher. Having 30-40 NMSFs in a school is more than a number- it shows that there is a large group of students who can, and do, enagage each other. Having these students is what creates the culture of excellence that I think other posters are referencing, and its something that not many other schools can mimic. This community and culture does help inspire the All-State musicians, ISEF winners, and the country's fourth best speech/debate team. Anyone who values this in Plano can take part in that community, and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Of course, I would argue that this allows the district to attract great teachers. Since we're talking about high-achievers, if you're taking AP classes in PISD, it's not unusual to have a teacher who has written the AP exam. That level of expertise can be pretty helpful.

Since you mention gifted Asian students, with families that emphasize education, do you ever wonder why they chose Plano ISD over any other district?

Sounds plausible but there is no data on that. Would you're average joe blow student be better off to attend Plano ISD or Hurst Bell considering the State's artificial 10% rule on going to UT or AM?

As for why they are there. IT jobs being in the area? Higher concentration of medical facilities in the area? They live where the jobs are and find the best district.

[adixyz]

Originally Posted by padcrasher

Poppycock. These stats that Plano touts are just as dependent on inherit IQ levels than Southlake's stats are. Plano Moderator cut: see note supporters have offered no evidence whatsoever the school district or a particular high school's teaching techniques move them farther up the ladder, any more than any other upper income school district around the area. I already posted data that the majority of their NMS was due to 1st generation Asian immigrants who log an average IQ 10 points above caucasians.

I disagree with your IQ argument. Flower Mound demography is almost similar to SouthLake, yet their performance on academic excellence is much better than SL and even Coppell.

Here are the % population of Asians taken from City-Data Stats with % NSM for 2012 in parenthesis for their prominent schools:

Plano : 16.8% (2.8% for Plano West HS)
Coppell: 15.8% (2.1% for Coppell HS)
Flower Mound: 8.5% (2.6% for FM HS)
Southlake : 6.2% (1.2% for Carroll HS)

2012 NMSF in FMHS had only 4-5 Asians out of 21.
Flower Mound High School 2012 National Merit Semifinalists » yornoodle


I think both Southlake and Coppell schools are great in turning out overall above average performance but lacks programs and/or teaching for academic excellence.

With your IQ logic, Coppell schools should be performing as good as Plano and FM and Southlake should be almost same?

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by padcrasher

Using Asians as an example was only because there is "group" data on their average IQ levels, their percent of the student population, their share of the NMS scholarships. The same phenomena happens among whites. The higher inherent IQ levels rise to the top. That's explains the one statistic you keep harping on, just as it explains Southlakes's bettter criteria you dismiss.

The two districts Bell curves have slightly different shapes. Has little if anything to do with Plano's teaching performance.

Then let's take HP and Carroll which are more demographically/ racially similar. HP spanks your ass in NMSF every year, with about a 2X penetration of class. Explain why Carroll's white kids can't put up HP white kid numbers. Something is going wrong in SL when the very top kids don't stack up well to top kids across the metroplex. You're doing well with the average students but not pushing the top kids enough....or maybe they intellectually fall a bit short; haven't been in the school so don't know.

What "better criteria" am I dismissing? NMSF is the great equalizer across the country as all college-bound kids take the exact same exams on the exact same day in the exact same subjects. It's an even better measure than AP where the mix of subjects can skew results (ie, English and History exams are far easier than Calculus and Physics).

FWIW, the math program at PISD (where I am not a former student, teacher, or even a resident) is fabulous. The "Math Rocks" pilot class has not even hit high school (or senior high, not sure?) yet. They are intellectually challenging kids- black, white, yellow, pink, purple, rich, poor, middle, etc - on a completely different level than any other public district and all but the most elite private schools. The curriculum is fantastic and they do well facilitating the needs of kids who are ready for college level courses early- some offered on campus and others at UTD or SMU.