6-7 yr new house foundation problem, dealing with builder, need suggestion (Houston: real estate, insurance)
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Our house was built in 2006 and closed in Jan 2007. Shortly after we moved in, we noticed some hairy lines between the wall or the ceiling. At that time the builder told us that were normal. We learned that the soil in DFW is hard on the house foundation, so we are pretty careful in watering the foundation. A few months ago, I noticed more and more cracks appeared inside, one day I found the outside expansion joints on both the east and west side are separated. I contacted the builder, first, they sent a staff to come out, then he ordered a structure engineer to come out to do some measurement, then few weeks later, the staff and his manager came to my house and did the walk thru again. Now the fourth time, the manager and the staff came back with the engineer report, and told us there are some foundation issues and they are going to follow the recommendation from the PE, which call for install 15 piers around the front part of the house.
I have a very mix feeling about this whole situation. I am not sure how to start at this point. What can I expect from the builder? What are the rights I have as the homeowner? What are the things I can negotiate with the builder? A foundation problem in this early age of the house clearly indicate that the builder did not do they job right. Having a foundation repair will negatively impact our house value, should the builder be responsible for our financial loss? Will installing piers really fix the problem, what if it happen again a few years later, either in the same area or difference area of the house?
I appreciate any suggestion and advice from you.
I remember being told that in Texas, foundation problems aren't an "if" question, but a "when." Having piers put in most likely will not have a negative effect on your value. Often the companies that do foundation work offer lifetime transferrable warranties that would make your house MORE appealing for a buyer than one that doesn't. Most builders offer only 10 years.
It could be a sign that they didn't properly test or prepare the soil, but it could also be a result of last year's drought, too. I think that affected a lot of foundations, since there were watering restrictions, so the soil dried out.
I have never had to have a builder fix mine, but know many people who have. Are there several people in your area affected? The people I know who had theirs fixed all were living in the same neighborhood and the builder put in some cosmetic upgrades for the inconvenience, most likely because of the pressure all of those people put on them. Do a little research and see if you can find others with similar problems, but if I were in your situation, I certainly would ask them to at least fix the cracks and cosmetics that were damaged by the foundation movement. I think that would be reasonable.
Under normal conditions (no seismic activity, geological disturbances, natural disasters etc), there's no reason for a foundation issue in a properly constructed home.
Having your foundation repaired does have the potential to affect the perceived value of your house regardless of any actual loss of value. If there are two homes someone is interested in and one has no history of structural defects, that's the one they will go with in most cases. unfortunately, it's equally as possible that simply painting one of your walls a bright red will cause the same 'loss' so no way to prove it.
It sounds like the builder is stepping up to remedy the problem which is a great thing. People are often too late in discovering such lapses in workmanship and find that the builder has closed the division responsible for the development long ago. Have the piers installed and ask them to send someone to repair the affected areas (cracks, millwork separations etc) as well. In most cases, the pier work is covered under an exclusive warranty so any future problems in the exact same area will be covered but not any new areas so when the work is done, make sure you have a diagram that clearly indicates what areas are covered under the warranty and keep an eye out for any additional movement.
Are you taking any responsibility for the foundation issue at all? I mean, you're the one who was supposed to be watering it and helping it maintain it's moisture level, and also making sure water wasn't pooling around the house when it rained a lot. Did you do your part?
The builders give a 10 year foundation warranty for a reason, because sometimes things happen. No, you're not going to be able to get any additional money from them. When you bought it, they offered the warranty. You agreed to the warranty. They are agreeing to fix your foundation with the warranty. What makes you think you are entitled to any other money? In addition to them fixing the foundation, they should also take care of the cosmetic issues that were caused by the issue, but that's it.
If there are problems in the future, if they are outside the 10 year warranty, you are responsible for those issues. If the issues are in the same area, the foundation company should be giving you a warranty to cover the repair in the future.
Our house was built in 2006 and closed in Jan 2007. Shortly after we moved in, we noticed some hairy lines between the wall or the ceiling. At that time the builder told us that were normal. We learned that the soil in DFW is hard on the house foundation, so we are pretty careful in watering the foundation. A few months ago, I noticed more and more cracks appeared inside, one day I found the outside expansion joints on both the east and west side are separated. I contacted the builder, first, they sent a staff to come out, then he ordered a structure engineer to come out to do some measurement, then few weeks later, the staff and his manager came to my house and did the walk thru again. Now the fourth time, the manager and the staff came back with the engineer report, and told us there are some foundation issues and they are going to follow the recommendation from the PE, which call for install 15 piers around the front part of the house.
I have a very mix feeling about this whole situation. I am not sure how to start at this point. What can I expect from the builder? What are the rights I have as the homeowner? What are the things I can negotiate with the builder? A foundation problem in this early age of the house clearly indicate that the builder did not do they job right. Having a foundation repair will negatively impact our house value, should the builder be responsible for our financial loss? Will installing piers really fix the problem, what if it happen again a few years later, either in the same area or difference area of the house?
I appreciate any suggestion and advice from you.
I can only say WOW! I have to agree with jdallas about the builder stepping up to the plate to correct the issues. Fifteen piers is not a small job and it is going to cost them. I won't say it is rare but to have a builder admit to a problem of that type and be willing to work to get it properly corrected, for a house of that age is saying something positive for the builder. In 6 years anything could have occurred to cause the movement and it really is easy for a builder to make the process difficult, if not near impossible, to get them to repair this. Of course we don't know the extent of your warranty but if it is the typical warranty they are written basically to save the builder from repairs unless the foundation is in a state where the house is just about not habitable (seriously read the warranty language).
Foundation problems do not understand age or time and can happen before you even close on the home, or it can take years to occur if at all! In the last 6 years we have been through bad droughts that could result in under watering, over watering, and a host of other related issues.
As far as what to expect from the builder it depends a large part on what the PE's recommendations were other than the 15 piers. Has the builder provided you a copy of the PE report? The PE will specify any and all steps they feel are necessary including additional engineering reviews and homeowner actions. Has the builder provided you any written plan of action on what they plan to do? With this and the PE report it should give a good idea of what to expect.
As for the financial loss question that is one you would have to consult an Attorney on. Since we have no idea of your full situation, nor are we Attorneys (most of us here), any answers we give would be pure speculation.
As for if the piers will fix the problem it all depends on what the PE found during their engineering review, and the depth of the review. Keep in mind that PE's are putting their stamp on that report and that is nothing they wish to do lightly or with less than honest intentions. If they act obviously negligent or dishonest they can have their life's career yanked out from under them. Of course it would not be surprising that the report and recommendations have some disclaimers since they can only work under the current known information, conditions, or other constraints at that time.
It sounds as if you are possibly not comfortable with the home now and might be leery with the builder? If it makes you more comfortable I have PM'ed you the name of a very good PE who specializes in residential foundations, is a published author on them, and also specializes in forensic engineering with respect to residential foundations. Forensic Engineering is the specialty of deconstructing problems to determine why they happened. The FE part can be very expensive and is typically used if going to litigation over a problem. You can consult with him to have a basic review of your issue and the PE report from the builder to see what his opinions are.
If you feel you need to go farther or require legal guidance on the issue you should talk to a good Real Estate Attorney. I'm sure our RE members here can offer recommendations.
Let us know how it progresses so others can learn.
You are lucky that its under full warranty and they are willing to fix it without much trouble, do check with a real estate attorney for your legal position in all possible scenarios.
A75013, you need to research Veritsol soils and get an understanding of what Plasticity Index means. In terms you might understand, PI could be defined as the soils ability to change its physical volume due to moisture content. It's really a test of the plastic properties when water is introduced, then the sample is rolled and an empirical number assigned at the point where the soil will no longer roll and just falls apart. The lower the number, the more stable the soil. Unfortunately, Texas is covered with a lot of clay soils, most being what is called the Houston Black Clay. In extreme cases you can have as much as 16" of vertical displacement between the driest and the wettest time of the year. The PI was a required statement at closing so you might go thru your papers and see what the PI is. Anything over 60 means issues are going to happen. Watering helps but you have to water a lot around the foundation which most folks seem to fail at doing. The builder did not spec that apparent post tension slab and a builder speced slab would not have been poured even by a fly by night contractor. The slab specs were engineered by a Certified Professional Engineer by the State of Texas. He's the guy that sets the specs for the slab pour, cable spacing, Cable KIPs specs, beam depth and size, cap, and strength of concrete used. Builders actually prefer this scenario as it pretty much relieves them of liability on the foundation. While the builder may be doing the work and handling the warranty, the Engineer is footing the bill for the repairs. Financially, you are not losing but actually gaining. Your warranty is about to run out at year 10. Most often the firm doing the work will offer an extended warranty which is transferable. That's a pretty good selling point to a new buyer to have a warranty on the foundation when others in the same neighborhood won't have warranty. As far as what is negotiable, everything is negotiable. You can elect to not accept the work and the builder will drive off. You can hire your own engineer to see if they agree with the builders engineer but the cost is out of your pocket(figure 3-500 bucks depending on who you hire). You can accept the work as they have designed. Regardless, you'll be getting more warranty on the foundation if you just let them do their job. Like everything though, get everything in writing. Get exactly what they are going to do in writing, what warranty will be applied and for how long, length of time the work will take place, who's going to clean up the mess, will any landscaping be replaced, what hours will the work take place and what days, is the company doing the actual work have General Liability and get a copy of it. If the GL Insurance is via the builder, get a copy of it. Any injuries that occurs on your property will result in you being sued. The definition of a lawsuit is an attorney making money. He doesn't care who's pocket it comes from just as long as it's a lot. Make sure to have the General Liability Insurance copy in your file.
I've been independently handling claims like this for builders for over 25 years now. If you would like to ask more questions or want more info, you're welcome to DM me. If you want to hire your own engineer, I know the best forensic engineer in Texas and he's well known for straight answers. But be glad that the builder has stepped up to the plate and is attempting to make your home as stable as he can. Unfortunately there's far too many that would do the dog and pony show and leave you hanging out to dry.
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