British Mom moving to HP/UP/PH or Lakewood?? Help! (Houston: houses, school district)
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I agree with Anonperson. Just for the factor of prestige and name dropping, Saint Marks and Hockaday don't go far outside of Texas. If you go to Exter and Andover then you don't need to explain your whereabouts and of course those schools send more students to Ivies and their alumni network has more worth.
Excuse me?! Your post is trying to imply that BOTH HPISD and Hillcrest both need a little help from their private school residents. C'mon!
Sure, HPHS would likely be a 3.5% NMSF high school and would maybe get another 20 point SAT lift from the private school contingency. That would keep HP's SAT the #1 score in the area, just pull another 20 points away from Plano West. They'd probably jump over Coppell in the NMSF rankings. Nice to have, but wouldn't really alter the already competitive and high achieving nature of the school.
Hillcrest, on the other hand, would be a completely different school with its private school residents. Would probably be vying for a top 1-5 ranking in DFW area, SAT average would rise by several hundred points, NMSF would go from 0% of class to 3-5% range, percent of economically disadvantages kids would plummet to 10% or fewer. BUT / that all assumes the staff & administration of a DISD comprehensive school could actually run a HP-like enclave school and that the private school kids wouldn't be taking a good chunk of DISD magnet spots from the students who are already there. I suspect Hillcrest (in its current state) would still lose a ton of neighborhood kids to the magnet schools and while it probably wouldn't impact SEM and TAG since those kids are already super high- achieving, the balance of magnet schools would probably see major bumps in SAT's, NMSF, etc to avoid the neighborhood high school.
Wouldn't help Woodrow much since a tiny percentage of the Lakewood kids are enrolled in top privates.
Honestly, it would significantly help HP, Woodrow and Hillcrest.
Actually, I'm sure Lakewooder will chime in on this but many of the old Dallas money elite did go to Woodrow and other Dallas publics and even as recently as my childhood Hillcrest was the choice of the Preston Hollow professional class. Why do the Cubans and Perots choose privates? For the same reason that the NYC big money types choose Dalton and Spence instead of Stuyvesant and Bronx Science -- social milieu, social pressure, conformity, etc. And the aspiring professional class follows them, particularly if the local publics are not exceptional.
As I've said, it's not my money and if you have dollar bills to burn, go for it. I do think that for the average upper-middle-class professional types, $75K a year in private school tuition represents a not-insignificant sacrifice and spending that to educate a lackluster student would not be my choice. I do recognize that there can be a sweet-spot where the child is promising enough and the tuition not problematic enough that the decision makes sense. But I also think in general people are afraid of the unknown and of being different and most affluent Preston Hollow types would no more choose Hillcrest when everyone else on their block is at Hockaday than they'd drive up in a 20-year-old car, even if their bright kid can come out of it with the same college choice. People like to do what their neighbors so.
My father went to hillcrest with his Jewish friends, back then he said his parents considered it a decent school. He would never consider it a decent school now. The SAT scores stink, hardly any NMSF, no community support, and subpar facilities.
I think you assume that there are a multitude of lackluster students at st marks and Hockaday. I have no idea why you think that is the case. As the class expands from 36 to 100, do you have any idea how hard it is to gain admission in 5th and 8th grade? do you think that they are admitting 50 slackers? If you don't think your child is a high achiever, you don't apply. If I felt my three kids were lackluster, I would just move to public schools. (stick them at hillcrest, let them graduate in top 9 percent, off to Texas for school).
I agree with Anonperson. Just for the factor of prestige and name dropping, Saint Marks and Hockaday don't go far outside of Texas. If you go to Exter and Andover then you don't need to explain your whereabouts and of course those schools send more students to Ivies and their alumni network has more worth.
Agree. Hockaday and st marks are well known in Texas, and the elite colleges know them, but the average person in new York does not.
In hockaday's case, part of that is related to their mission. If they wanted higher scores, they would not give preference to siblings, alumni, etc.
I think you assume that there are a multitude of lackluster students at st marks and Hockaday. I have no idea why you think that is the case. As the class expands from 36 to 100, do you have any idea how hard it is to gain admission in 5th and 8th grade? do you think that they are admitting 50 slackers? If you don't think your child is a high achiever, you don't apply. If I felt my three kids were lackluster, I would just move to public schools. (stick them at hillcrest, let them graduate in top 9 percent, off to Texas for school).
From our experience at Travis, I know Hockaday and St. Marks recruit at the high school fair. We're still getting letters. So, no, I don't know how hard it is to get in. I imagine for my kids it might be easy. I don't think the class is composed of dullards, but I also don't necessarily think that every girl there is brilliant.
I looked at the 2010 matriculation list, as you suggested, and many of the colleges are certainly not jaw-droppers (including my very own alma mater on there). Some Tulane, SMU, Clemson, Baylor, OU, University of Georgia, Vanderbilt, etc. That said, there are also some very impressive top-tier schools on there as well. As I said, my decision would hinge on a number of factors, including finances and my own kid's abilities.
Not every kid / parent is gunning for Ivy / T20 colleges. And that's ok. This thread was discussing top students and I doubt any HP kids in the top 20% are picking LSU (unless it's a ridiculous full ride and then, more power to them).
Considering the bottom 20% kids at Woodrow either aren't going to college at all or are at El Centro, the bottom 20% of HP kids who end up at Tech, Alabama, Ole Miss, etc are still a few legs up on their WW counterparts and are matriculating into the same tier 2 schools their private school counterparts are.
Also considering pretty much everyone with a substantial (3000SF, single family detached) family home in the Park Cities is paying $1M+ to live there, there are MANY more reasons to choose the Park Cities than just the great public schools -> "concierge" quality fire & police departments, well kept public parks & pools, near 0% crime rate, best central suburban-feeling location in Dallas, community events & support, etc. Even if jr isn't destined for Ivy, it's hardly as though the family "suffered" through their Park Cities existence for 20+ years to educate him. They got to live in one of the best urban enclaves in the US.
Seriously,
I think this is silliness. I stopped reading with a sigh at this one. There are plenty of people who look for friends and neighborhoods and schools without worrying about how elite they are. Plenty. But maybe not so much on this thread. Perspective, please. It's just not this crucial. How crappy life would be if it were.
I appreciate you attempting to address my questions...actually the minutiae of an institution's matriculation statistics, is largely irrelevant to my decision making. I did in fact ask about HPHS, once it became clear to me that the school was an academically sound one. But my question was entirely about my main concern, which isn't what college my children will eventually end up in, if God blesses me and them with that opportunity, it was about their happiness.
It is far more important to me, as ignorant and clueless as I am about American schools, to try to understand the social environment. I want my children to be happy. For me that means spending the majority of their day away from me, ( ), with people who are generally kind, humane, happy for the most part. I want them to feel like, even in this vast and incredible country there is a community where they feel like they belong and where they can contribute and flourish.
I dread the thought of my sons feeling like their only value comes from the grades on their report card or the amount of times they beat their classmates, or their sports rivals. Like unless they make it onto some arbitrary list of top somethings they are a failure. Additionally, the idea of my daughter feeling like her worth to her peer group comes from how thin she is and how attractive to the opposite sex she is, horrifies me. I have worked hard to instil values in my children, and to support and nurture the growth of their God given character, in a world that often fails to remember that the greatest achievement is to be a good man. Or a good woman. I really wanted to know what the schools are like from the point of view of the children. What do they struggle with when you tuck them in at night? what do they like about their friends? do they feel accepted? Safe? happy? Are the kids kind/mean? Do they run the gauntlet every day? Is it dog-eat-dog? Or friendly and fun with the odd tricky situation?
That's what I tried to ask about...
Question - Has anybody actually answered your questions?
It's a shame that everyone got into a tizz and totally lost focus on helping you.
I agree with Anonperson. Just for the factor of prestige and name dropping, Saint Marks and Hockaday don't go far outside of Texas. If you go to Exter and Andover then you don't need to explain your whereabouts and of course those schools send more students to Ivies and their alumni network has more worth.
It doesn't matter if Joe Schmo has the same name recognition for St Marks or Hockaday as he does Exeter or Andover. What does matter is what the elite college admission offices think (since no one really knows where you went to high school in college/ grad school / the workplace) and I can assure you St Marks and Hockaday are in the same league as the NYC privates, the top boarding schools, Harvard-Westlake, etc. Do NOT underestimate the role the college counselors at these top schools play in brokering college admission and ensuring high matriculation rates for those who are accepte.
[quote=Ramona72;28708467]From our experience at Travis, I know Hockaday and St. Marks recruit at the high school fair. We're still getting letters. So, no, I don't know how hard it is to get in. I imagine for my kids it might be easy. I don't think the class is composed of dullards, but I also don't necessarily think that every girl there is brilliant.
The overall acceptance rate is 22 percent, but it is much easier to get accepted in pre-k than 5th or 8th grade. The acceptance rate for 5th or 8th would be well under 20 percent. For perspective, Rice I believe has the lowest acceptance rate of university in texas, at 19 percent. Glad to know though that it would be easy for your daughter. Even from the brightest kids' parents, I rarely see that kind of confidence.
And you are right, not every kid there is brilliant, but even the average kids receive an education well above average.
Question - Has anybody actually answered your questions?
It's a shame that everyone got into a tizz and totally lost focus on helping you.
ER as a matter of fact no. I have tried to make a point in various ways that I would actually really appreciate
some insight into the social fabric of the schools.
A few people have raised some points about the culture
between the UK and the US being similar " teens are teens" I think
the phrase was.. And others have delved a little deeper.
I think I'll start a new thread under a different name!
See how far that gets me...( sorry if my punctuation's off... I'm currently cruising round Highland Park ! Give me a wave if you see me!
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Perspective, please. It's just not this crucial. How crappy life would be if it were.
), with people who are generally kind, humane, happy for the most part. I want them to feel like, even in this vast and incredible country there is a community where they feel like they belong and where they can contribute and flourish.
ER as a matter of fact no. I have tried to make a point in various ways that I would actually really appreciate
