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I wonder if anyone could educate me a little...? I'm a Brit, currently living in the States but moving to Dallas in the next six months probably. I have three sproglets..two boys, 6 and ten and a girl 13. They will hopefully go to St. Marks and Hockaday.
I've had trouble feeling at home so far here ( living in AR, yes I know, not the best choice for a plummy Brit from the Home Counties I agree..but it has been very...em..horizon broadening shall we say.)
We come from a very tight knit village deep in the beautiful wolds of Surrey (just under London). At home my friends and my children's friends lived in each others pockets, and we raised our children..well..like a village. I'd very much like to try to get something close to that here. I've heard lovely things about HP but I'm a bit confused, not difficult to do that I hear you say...I've read here that 80% of children go to HPISD ( I'm pretending I know what that means and really I don't..something about Highland Park School District something something..) I'm wondering whether the other 20% go private and if so is there a great yawning chasm of otherness about the social groups? Does anyone have experience of sending their kids privately in HP? I love the idea of having children all over the place but I don't want mine to feel left out because they don't go to the local High School. Would this be an issue do you think?
I know that PH has more families that go private but starting out in a new community I'm not sure I'd want the whole separation thing too much. I'd love a real neighbourhood.
Do share with me any thoughts you might have..I like the idea of lower taxes in HP especially as we'll be paying for three at private school...but I'm open to what the best fit might be.
Other bits to consider are..I need some greenery, will simply die without it. so the parks of HP appeal, but so does Lakewood..is PH green?
Also, the wretched heat..it's the biggest negative for me. I simply wilt in the heat..so what do you DO in the Summer to stay sane? I must say, I've never faced this problem before coming from England. Our Summer lasts all of five minutes and even then you'd better bring your brolly just in case.
You will get more house for your money in the following order:
Lakewood
Preston Hollow
University Park
Lakewood
I think all are fairly strong communities with lots of families and a good neighborhood culture. Budget is definitely going to play into this picture as well. A 5 bedroom house in the lakewood/preston hollow area is going to run you around a million where as in the highland park area that could easily be double.
I wonder if anyone could educate me a little...? I'm a Brit, currently living in the States but moving to Dallas in the next six months probably. I have three sproglets..two boys, 6 and ten and a girl 13. They will hopefully go to St. Marks and Hockaday.
I've had trouble feeling at home so far here ( living in AR, yes I know, not the best choice for a plummy Brit from the Home Counties I agree..but it has been very...em..horizon broadening shall we say.)
We come from a very tight knit village deep in the beautiful wolds of Surrey (just under London). At home my friends and my children's friends lived in each others pockets, and we raised our children..well..like a village. I'd very much like to try to get something close to that here. I've heard lovely things about HP but I'm a bit confused, not difficult to do that I hear you say...I've read here that 80% of children go to HPISD ( I'm pretending I know what that means and really I don't..something about Highland Park School District something something..) I'm wondering whether the other 20% go private and if so is there a great yawning chasm of otherness about the social groups? Does anyone have experience of sending their kids privately in HP? I love the idea of having children all over the place but I don't want mine to feel left out because they don't go to the local High School. Would this be an issue do you think?
I know that PH has more families that go private but starting out in a new community I'm not sure I'd want the whole separation thing too much. I'd love a real neighbourhood.
Do share with me any thoughts you might have..I like the idea of lower taxes in HP especially as we'll be paying for three at private school...but I'm open to what the best fit might be.
Other bits to consider are..I need some greenery, will simply die without it. so the parks of HP appeal, but so does Lakewood..is PH green?
Also, the wretched heat..it's the biggest negative for me. I simply wilt in the heat..so what do you DO in the Summer to stay sane? I must say, I've never faced this problem before coming from England. Our Summer lasts all of five minutes and even then you'd better bring your brolly just in case.
If you're going to send your kids to private school, I wouldn't even bother with the Park Cities since its main advantage over Lakewood and Preston Hollow is its superior school system. If you're looking at St Marks and Hockaday, you would do better to look in Preston Hollow (zip code 75230) just from a drop off/pick up point of view.
Both Preston Hollow and Lakewood are affluent with plenty of "Dallitude", but the ambiance is different in those two areas. I can't say which you'd prefer; it would be up to you.
All three areas have acres of painfully green lawns, lots of mature trees, and lots of parks. The parks would be nicer in the Park Cities; Lakewood has some nice parks too. PH has such large lots and so many private rec centers in the area that nobody really misses the relative lack of park land. (I grew up in PH.)
In summer, we stay indoors and shop or dine out, or we go swimming. Or sit in front of the TV and gripe. Summers here are horrible. I lived in the UK for a while and the summers there were hit or miss; some days were glorious, others were torture as the temps climbed above 90F with no air conditioning anywhere; still others made you wonder what month it was as you bundled up and could see your breath on the air in the morning. Yep...been there done that!
I actually think that your plan of living in the park cities and going private is very doable. There are numerous families that live in the park cities and send their kids to Hockaday/St. Marks. In fact, I would see it is extremely more common to send your kids to Hockaday/St. Marks while living in the park cities than living in Lakewood. I know very few families from Lakewood that have kids at Hockaday/St. Marks. Moreover, the commute from Lakewood would be less than ideal.
Most families at those schools do live in Preston Hollow or the surrounding neighborhoods.
Personally, we moved from the Park Cities to Preston Hollow because we wanted a nice new house for around a million bucks. That is roughly what our 1930s house was worth in the Park Cities. I do miss the neighborhood kids in the park cities (we have them in Preston Hollow obviously, but the houses are spaced out more). As for the parks, you will find my three kids at the Park Cities parks all of the time. We live in 75230 which means that we have a five minute commute to several of the nicer park cities parks.
The other advantage you would have is flexibility. You are applying to two very difficult schools. Odds are, unless your kids are out of this world, all three might have a difficult time getting admitted. They might not have any spots no matter what kind of genius kids you have raised! Thus, it would be a great fall back plan if not all of the kids got admitted (or, if one of the kids had to reapply the following year, etc.)
My take is that "community" and the "village" raising approach look very different in each of the areas you named:
Park Cities- community is chiefly built through the public schools, even from birth with the very involved early childhood/ preschool associations in each of the elementary school zones. So much revolves around the schools- Friday night football games, elementary school carnivals, volunteering K1-12, sports & other extracurriculars that are school teams/ productions. True, about 20% of the kids living there are in private school, but my experience growing up there is that those families live in different "circles" and not as much in the mainstream Park Cities community. May not be the best choice from a community building pov.
Lakewood- probably has the strongest community that isn't school related since so many kids aren't in public schools and the trend to go public is more recent than long-rooted in the Park Cities. Lakewood is more about Lakewood vs Lakewood/ Long/ Woodrow schools.
Preston Hollow- probably has the least neighborhood community feel/ involvement; HOWEVER, the majority of St Mark's / Hockaday kids pull from PH/North Dallas so to maximize the "built-in" community a private school provides, you may find it beneficial to live closer to school and their classmates.
All three areas are absolutely gorgeous. Home & lot size/type among the three. Commute from Lakewood to St Mark's / Hockaday is a beating so keep that in mind. Could easily be spending 2+ hours a day in a car to take & drop off both kids.
Aside from your block/ neighborhood and schools, community / friendships are also built in church, country clubs, and professional organizations around Dallas.
I think TC80 is spot on about the "community" differences between those 3 areas. That said, I don't think you will find ANYTHING like the small English village feel here in the metroplex. I guess I am a little confused what you are actually looking for. I would liken those three areas more to distinct parts of London, then to any area in Surrey. Where exactly do you live now? My grandparents lived in Mitcham and to me that felt kind of like our suburbs here. If your village is even smaller and further out than that, then I am not sure that those areas match what you want. The thing about those 3 areas is that they do have a suburban feel within their boundaries, but within minutes you are back in the big city. Many people love that about those areas (me included) but for someone who loves village life, I am not sure that would be a good fit. There is no "countryside" nearby, no footpaths through fields of sheep, no local pub that everyone gathers at for Sunday dinner while the kids play in the garden. But if you are ok with the feel of your "village" being plonked down in the middle of London, then it might work for you. In that case, Lakewood would be the best fit, as it tends to have more Lakewood-centric meeting spots/restaurants/etc where you will run into other locals (though many from outside the area will frequent too) and a strong community vibe and connection. Plus you would have White Rock Lake, which will be the closest thing in the city of Dallas you will get to any "English countryside" (though still a far stretch). Though compared to where you are now, it might seem like heaven...lol! Definitely come out here and look around before you make any big decisions. Good luck!
I went to Surrey on my one and only trip to the UK many years ago. I come from a huge extended family (really a scottish clan/indian tribe blended together ) and sense some of what you allude to.
Its going to be hard to find that in the DFW area. And it will take a few months to get that homey, clannish, blended family feel. Its going to be hard the first few weeks.
Social lives here for parents tend to revolve around schools. And that is probably your easiest route to recreating some of what you will lose. Getting here with three weeks before school starts and then plunging in will reduce the angst. A long hot summer will be hard on you - unless you plan a long family trip around the US to break it up.
And as far as publics go, unless your kids are in the honors programs at them, they will be too easy for kids coming from top schools in the UK. Some on here suggested Lakewood. The schools there will be too easy for your kids.
It is going to be very, very hard to get into St Marks and Hockaday. The competition is very intense. I would consider some other privates like ESD where all your kids can attend as your first choice when you first come here. Then look into the others if you still would like.
Where to live. The larger lots in Preston Hollow are attractive, but HP/UP will have a lot more kids and families around. Living close to school is best.
Gosh, thank you everyone. Ahem, I mean, 'y'all'. Lol, if only you knew how ridiculous I sound saying that!
So..I hear slightly different things..firstly, we're agreed that the houses and the environment in PH and HP are gorgeous - great! That's so good to hear. Secondly, I'll get more for my money in Lakewood, and Preston Hollow than HP? But there are two drawbacks, namely the commute from Lakewood which now that I know that , thank you Turtle Creek, just removes Lakewood from the equation. And the fact that if the sprogs don't get in to the schools, (DON"T GET IN??? said in a very disapproving, slightly astonished British accent) then PH could mean they wouldn't have the High school as a back up plan. Very good point. Thank you Hock Dad.
Ok, also I hear from Turtle Creek that which I wondered about, that there is naturally a divide, even if not a deliberate one between the public and private social groups, but Hock Dad thinks this won't be a problem because there'll be enough families that go private to mean that the being left out thing won't be an issue?
Hmmm. So the majority of private schoolers hail from PH/North Dallas, but PH is only five minutes away. The best parks are in HP and there are families from privates in HP...but the feel is different.
Turtle Creek, I take your point about the difference in community feel between the three.
Well, I must say a big thank you. It's very kind of you chaps to take time to help me and others like you do with inside info. Can't tell you how helpful it is really. There should be a best forumer/most valuable forumer medal or something..greatest contribution to the clueless award.
Gosh, thank you everyone. Ahem, I mean, 'y'all'. Lol, if only you knew how ridiculous I sound saying that!
So..I hear slightly different things..firstly, we're agreed that the houses and the environment in PH and HP are gorgeous - great! That's so good to hear. Secondly, I'll get more for my money in Lakewood, and Preston Hollow than HP? But there are two drawbacks, namely the commute from Lakewood which now that I know that , thank you Turtle Creek, just removes Lakewood from the equation. And the fact that if the sprogs don't get in to the schools, (DON"T GET IN??? said in a very disapproving, slightly astonished British accent) then PH could mean they wouldn't have the High school as a back up plan. Very good point. Thank you Hock Dad.
Ok, also I hear from Turtle Creek that which I wondered about, that there is naturally a divide, even if not a deliberate one between the public and private social groups, but Hock Dad thinks this won't be a problem because there'll be enough families that go private to mean that the being left out thing won't be an issue?
Hmmm. So the majority of private schoolers hail from PH/North Dallas, but PH is only five minutes away. The best parks are in HP and there are families from privates in HP...but the feel is different.
Turtle Creek, I take your point about the difference in community feel between the three.
Well, I must say a big thank you. It's very kind of you chaps to take time to help me and others like you do with inside info. Can't tell you how helpful it is really. There should be a best forumer/most valuable forumer medal or something..greatest contribution to the clueless award.
There are other excellent private schools in Dallas besides St Marks and Hockaday. If you lived in the Park Cities, you should at least consider the public schools. People are telling you your kids would be way ahead of public school children here, but I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Having lived there myself, I didn't think the state school system was any better than our public school system. They certainly pumped out lots of people with a dozen GCSEs and half a dozen A-levels who were just as dumb as your average American high school graduate.
Also, the public schools in Highland Park are going to be superior to public schools anywhere else in north Texas. Compared to HPHS, pretty much every high school in DISD except the magnet schools is a daycare center for delinquents.
If you've discounted Lakewood, then disregard this email, but since you seem pretty green on this whole endeavor I feel like I ought to at least speak up for my neighborhood
Lakewood has a really great community - I can't go to the grocery store or a restaurant or a movie theater without running into someone I know. This is mostly due to the fact that there are 3 main schools for the area that are entirely populated by kids from Lakewood and Forest Hills, and those families tend to interact a lot in the neighborhood through churches, clubs, and the usual neighborly get togethers. Not a lot of outsiders at those schools, and not a lot of our kids consider the North Dallas privates until high school, if then. Most of us chose East Dallas for the vibe, and don't feel the need to hump our kids 30 minutes to a school for the name recognition value.
Lakewood is as beautiful as Dallas gets - lots of great trees and green lawns surrounding an urban lake. (Qualification is needed...Dallas doesn't get all that beautiful at the best of times.) It's close to downtown, and the vibe is generally a little less full of the "Dallitude" BigDGeek referred to (that's a new one for me, but I'm running with it!) We're little more relaxed, a little less amped up about things. That's also relative - we have our share of silliness as well. It's pretty easy to avoid. The lake helps - sailing clubs, rowing clubs, running clubs...that's the kind of neighborhood stuff we see.
The three main schools are public (Lakewood elementary/Long middle/Woodrow high), St. Thomas Aquinas (Catholic) and St. John's (Episcopal.) There are a couple other super small schools as well, but these are the main groups. All intermingle quite a bit.
As for the summer, after his third Dallas August my husband put his foot down. We now spend the first few weeks of that month in Colorado. We sacrifice other things in service to that trip, but it's been an enormous boost for us in terms of white knuckling it through the heat that starts in May and doesn't let up until the end of September. You may think you don't want a pool at your house - we didn't. We were wrong, but thank goodness the best house for us already had one. It's the only way you can be outside after 10am for several months.
Good luck with your search! What an adventure!
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