Second Thoughts...moving from SF Bay to Dallas (Frisco: crime, homes)

[EDS_]

For business reasons mostly my brother and I kept a small condo sort-of between Chinatown and Russian Hill. That place - less than 1,000sf and not very nice - cost us $805K in 2004. A similar place around here would be less than $125K probably way less.

Most people simply do not understand how expensive SF is and how hard it is to live in the city versus here and I really love San Francisco. A Buena Vista Irish coffee or five then strolling by Coit Tower then on to the the waterfront for chocolate is a sublime time.

Contrary to the above notion that only COL is better in Dallas I'll list a few others many already mentioned.

1. DFW + Love Field totally smokes the air travel scene in SF.
2. Access to downtown SF is so terrible that many take ferry's across the bay. A number of my wife's minions work in DTSF for some of them the yield is 1.5 hours each way. The grind is drive to the ferry parking lot - fight the crowd onto the boat - boat across the water - dock - fight the crowd off the boat and then walk to the office - while freezing. In some areas in and around SF traffic is inexplicably bad - like London kind of bad.
3. Our local gov't. is at times absurd and silly. SF's is like le cage a faux meets The Stooges all the time.
4. We have corruption and graft - in SF it's pervasive and expected.
5. For kids the overall schooling situation here is markedly better - even more so regarding private schools.
6. We have a broad based economy with sharply positive migration metrics. The opposite is true in SF.
7. When's the last time you were accosted by a hostess walking by a restaurant in Dallas? That's never happened to me here. That's also 100% normal in and around Chinatown and other parts of greater DTSF.
8. On balance the weather is better here.
9. SF is packed with tourist traps - The Stinking Rose anyone?

[synchronicity]

What everyone else said. What you should probably do is just make a big list and kinda prioritize everything you like and dislike about the Bay Area. What's really really important to you, and what isn't? Dallas is dramatically different from SF in ways both good and bad. Housing is much (MUCH!!!) cheaper here and it's generally easier to get around. It does not have nearly the natural beauty of SF, it does not have the same depth of different ethnicities as you have in SF (in terms of food choices and overall culture - note that it has SOME, but not nearly what you're used to). You can't drive north for superb wine tastings on weekends, going through roads that are straight out of some nature movie vignette. The climate is warmer and gets bloody HOT in the summer (but generally not that humid), you get some wild thunderstorms and hail but almost no fog.

Regarding politics and religion and whatnot, yeah that's different but I find that to be generally "background noise" rather than something that intrudes day to day. It is true that That One Annoying Loopball will likely be conservative here rather than liberal there, but most people pretty much keep their politics and faith to themselves (well, faith might get mentioned in passing in that more people are involved in church-sponsored or related activities here, but it's just "yeah, daughter is taking piano lessons on Tuesdays and then on Thursdays we're helping with the Local Church Food Drive". Nobody's going to be trying to convert you when you're out mowing the lawn and almost nobody cares what church you go to or if you go at all).

As an FYI, I moved here two years ago from Chicago, but lived in the Pacific Northwest for 8 years and absolutely love the Bay Area, with many friends who reside there currently. Advantages to living here in DFW, as others have stated, include a better work-life balance and the aforementioned lower cost of living which helps with that balance. We also have flight benefits which allow for frequent travel, so we can visit friends in the Bay Area if we're sick of Texas and want to enjoy a weekend of redwoods, wine tastings, lunch in Chinatown and maybe pick up some groceries from Andronico's or Berkeley Bowl.

That last bit is important to remember - you may be working so much and spending so much just to get by that you can't fully enjoy all the Bay Area has to offer. Although airfares aren't cheap, you may find it better to visit on occasion, staying with friends and making your time there a true vacation. It's not like SF will fall into the ocean once you leave.

Also, I gotta disagree with some posters upthread - I PREFERRED watching Sunday football starting at 10AM with the second game around 1PM rather than later in the day. To me that was an ADVANTAGE of the West Coast.

Good luck. It's a tough decision to be sure. Evaluate everything and make the choice that's best for you.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by EDS_

le cage a faux meets

/off topic

It's 'la cage aux folles'.

French speaker...bad French is one of my pet peeves.

/on topic

[bencronin04]

This site will also give you a generalized view of what it takes to live in comparable cities.

Cost of Living Calculator: Compare the Cost of Living in Two Cities - CNNMoney

[TX75007]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

The main advantage is the cost of living. There aren't really any other advantages.

Having lived and worked in the Bary Area, and with operations there, I have to disagree.

Here are the other advantages to Texas.

1. People are more open to different ideas. The focus is on getting things done.
2. Much stronger economy now and in the future.
3. Much better and improving education system.
4. Far less crime. No us-vs-them mindset among local PDs.
5. Pluralistic, effective political system at all levels of government with strong opposition and an active press corps.
6. Much better race relations with a very high diversity and intermarriage.
7. Solvent local and state government.
8. Very high HS graduation rates among illegals.

California's only advantage at this point is the natural beauty and weather.

If you need more convincing, just drive around Oakland for an hour.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

/off topic

It's 'la cage aux folles'.

French speaker...bad French is one of my pet peeves.

/on topic

I'll do better next time.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by TX75007

1. People are more open to different ideas. The focus is on getting things done.

This is subjective. I don't see this as being universally true in DFW.

2. Much stronger economy now and in the future.

These things are cyclical, though. There's no guarantee that will continue to be the case 5, 10, 15 years from now.

3. Much better and improving education system.

I wouldn't know from personal experience, but DFW has a lot of schools that are essentially free daycare.

4. Far less crime. No us-vs-them mindset among local PDs.

I don't know what our crime rate is in comparison to the Bay Area's, but I know a Plano PD officer personally and he'd disagree with you on that 'us vs them' thing. I've heard rumors that Dallas and Richardson don't play nicely together either.

5. Pluralistic, effective political system at all levels of government with strong opposition and an active press corps.

LOL...not even true.

6. Much better race relations with a very high diversity and intermarriage.

No basis for comparison, but Dallas's race relations aren't all that great. There are also palpable tensions in Irving and Farmer's Branch. The DISD is also (still) dealing with a lot of racial politics. In the 80s it was blacks vs whites. Now it's blacks vs Hispanics.

7. Solvent local and state government.

Yup, I'd agree with you there.

8. Very high HS graduation rates among illegals.

I don't see how this translates into being an advantage. So we're graduating illegals who A.) can't work legally, B.) can't join the military, and C.) have to lie to go to college to get a degree that will be worthless to them because they can't work legally after graduation. Woo hoo. And our illegal population may not be as high as California's, but we still have a staggering number of them here. That's not a good thing.

[Cowboys fan in Houston]

Originally Posted by TX75007

Having lived and worked in the Bary Area, and with operations there, I have to disagree.

Here are the other advantages to Texas.

1. People are more open to different ideas. The focus is on getting things done.
2. Much stronger economy now and in the future.
3. Much better and improving education system.
4. Far less crime. No us-vs-them mindset among local PDs.
5. Pluralistic, effective political system at all levels of government with strong opposition and an active press corps.
6. Much better race relations with a very high diversity and intermarriage.
7. Solvent local and state government.
8. Very high HS graduation rates among illegals.

California's only advantage at this point is the natural beauty and weather.

If you need more convincing, just drive around Oakland for an hour.

1) If we were comparing Dallas to LA, I might agree. Comparing Dallas to the Bay, I dont.
2) Agreed.
3) For public High Schools, sure. Upper education cant hold a candle to the Bay or LA.
4) Disagreed especially where the city of Dallas is concerned. I dont know that one is better or worse than the other.
5) No. Dallas, nor Texas, nor LA, nor the Bay really has a transparent and effective government.
6) Again if we were comparing Dallas and LA, I would agree. I dont think were better off than the Bay in that category.
7) Yep.
8) I would love to see stats comparing the two.

To the OP, I would base it off of this:

1) Do you own your house or did you get a good rate on it? If so, I would stay put. If not, consider moving.
2) Do you spend a great deal of time outdoors (hiking, biking, camping, etc.)? If so, stay put. If not, consider moving.

As a native Californian, I do love living in this area. Dallas is (debatably) changing faster than any other metro area in the US right now. Its diversifying at a very fast rate. It may not be as diverse as the Bay right now, but Dallas just starting getting non-Mexican international immigrants in larger quantities about 20 years ago where as they have been coming to the Bay in large numbers for over 100 years. Give us more time and we'll be up there as well. The area is still really diverse and is improving on almost every level.

That said, if I could have afforded the same living in LA, I would have stayed simply because that was my home. Now that Im here and we have put down roots, we wont leave.

[bencronin04]

Why did LA get brought into this discussion?

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by justme02

1) If we were comparing Dallas to LA, I might agree. Comparing Dallas to the Bay, I dont.
2) Agreed.
3) For public High Schools, sure. Upper education cant hold a candle to the Bay or LA.
4) Disagreed especially where the city of Dallas is concerned. I dont know that one is better or worse than the other.
5) No. Dallas, nor Texas, nor LA, nor the Bay really has a transparent and effective government.
6) Again if we were comparing Dallas and LA, I would agree. I dont think were better off than the Bay in that category.
7) Yep.
8) I would love to see stats comparing the two.

To the OP, I would base it off of this:

1) Do you own your house or did you get a good rate on it? If so, I would stay put. If not, consider moving.
2) Do you spend a great deal of time outdoors (hiking, biking, camping, etc.)? If so, stay put. If not, consider moving.

As a native Californian, I do love living in this area. Dallas is (debatably) changing faster than any other metro area in the US right now. Its diversifying at a very fast rate. It may not be as diverse as the Bay right now, but Dallas just starting getting non-Mexican international immigrants in larger quantities about 20 years ago where as they have been coming to the Bay in large numbers for over 100 years. Give us more time and we'll be up there as well. The area is still really diverse and is improving on almost every level.

That said, if I could have afforded the same living in LA, I would have stayed simply because that was my home. Now that Im here and we have put down roots, we wont leave.

I just looked at 2012 FBI Violent Crime stats.

Dallas is a couple of % safer than SF.
It's difficult to eyeball metro to metro but DFW appears to be significantly safer from a VC perspective than The Bay Area. Although both are way ahead of our more violent cities/mertos like Atlanta, Memphis, Detroit etc.

Data:
Dallas 1.223m people 4,088 violent crimes
SF 814K people 2761 violent crimes
Oakland 395K people 3701 violent crimes