TOD around DART Stations (Plano: rental, lofts, town)

[JKAddict]

Originally Posted by mm4

Are you saying this is not urban enough?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Dallas,+TX/@32.8724985,-96.7657154,799m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x864c19f77b45974b:0xb9ec9 ba4f647678f!8m2!3d32.7766642!4d-96.7969879

And that development within several blocks of this station is not TOD?

Where did I say that it wasn't urban enough??

And no, it isn't. It's transit-adjacent development. It wouldn't make any difference if that station was not there, it wouldn't affect the Shops at Park Lane.

[mm4]

Originally Posted by JKAddict

And no, it isn't. It's transit-adjacent development. It wouldn't make any difference if that station was not there, it wouldn't affect the Shops at Park Lane.

A UNT study disagrees with you:
Studies tout Dallas light rail's impact - Management & Operations - Metro Magazine

The whole development--with shops--is in large measure predicated on the DART node. The station is even used as a selling point in its own literature:
http://theheightsdallas.com/neighborhood/

Originally Posted by JKAddict

Where did I say that it wasn't urban enough??

Well, here:
"And, lol, stop exaggerating. Dallas is no where close to getting as 'congested' as you're making it out to be." -JKAddict
//www.city-data.com/forum/44475900-post49.html


Do you need proof that The Shops development, in its entirety (on what had been a large parking lot serving office buildings Northpark 3 and 4 and a movie theater), was developed specifically with TOD in mind?
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us

[JKAddict]

Originally Posted by mm4

A UNT study disagrees with you:
Studies tout Dallas light rail's impact - Management & Operations - Metro Magazine

The whole development--with shops--is in large measure predicated on the DART node. The station is even used as a selling point in its own literature:
Dallas High Rise Luxury Apartments | Heights at Park Lane



Well, here:
"And, lol, stop exaggerating. Dallas is no where close to getting as 'congested' as you're making it out to be." -JKAddict
//www.city-data.com/forum/44475900-post49.html


Do you need proof that The Shops development, in its entirety (on what was a large parking lot serving office buildings Northpark 3 and 4 and a movie theater), was developed specifically with TOD in mind?
Park Lane

That UNT study doesn't mention anything that disagrees with me, all it says is that it is around a DART stations, which is what I exactly said.

And congested does not equal urban.

Here's a quote from the website you cited:

The Heights at Park Lane is a part of Park Lane, a new mixed-use development across from NorthPark Center, featuring Dallas’ most captivating combination of retail, dining and entertainment. Park Lane includes The Shops at Park Lane, a high-end shopping destination anchored by Whole Foods Market. Park your car and take advantage of this highly walkable community, where everything you need is centrally located and easily accessible to all. You can also easily hop on the public transit with a DART rail stop at Park Lane. The Heights is also located in close proximity to DFW Airport.

As you can see, it mentions NorthPark as its main selling points. It even mentions parking you car before using DART. The last sentence, to me, looks like an afterthought.

[mm4]

Originally Posted by JKAddict

That UNT study doesn't mention anything that disagrees with me,....

Well, it actually does.


But let's try a different tack. Do you need to read it from Tod Ruble, of Harvest Partners, its developer? From the Dallas Morning News (Friday, January 11, 2008):


...

"Early TODs like Mockingbird Station and even West Village in Uptown showed developers that these complexes resonated with consumers.

"The two newest such developments take the idea to the infinite degree.

"The 33-acre Park Lane complex under construction adjacent to DART's Park Lane rail station will cost three-quarters of a billion dollars to complete.

"The first phase of the mammoth mixed-use development will open later this year.

""Our grand opening will be in February of next year," said Tod Ruble, a co-founder of project developer Harvest Partners. "We will have the first tenants in the apartment towers by May of this year."

"The high-rise complex going up across North Central Expressway from NorthPark Center shopping mall is one of the largest such developments in the country.

"And Mr. Ruble said the project wouldn't be happening the way it is without the adjoining rail station.

""It's already come up several times in discussions with tenants about how attractive it will be to access the project through DART," he said. "As Dallas becomes more urban and people move back into the city, more of them are willing to ride the transit.""

....

[my bolds]

http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com...showtopic=2788

[JKAddict]

Originally Posted by mm4

Well, it actually does.


But let's try a different tack. Do you need to read it from Tod Ruble, of Harvest Partners, its developer? From the Dallas Morning News (Friday, January 11, 2008):


...

"Early TODs like Mockingbird Station and even West Village in Uptown showed developers that these complexes resonated with consumers.

"The two newest such developments take the idea to the infinite degree.

"The 33-acre Park Lane complex under construction adjacent to DART's Park Lane rail station will cost three-quarters of a billion dollars to complete.

"The first phase of the mammoth mixed-use development will open later this year.

""Our grand opening will be in February of next year," said Tod Ruble, a co-founder of project developer Harvest Partners. "We will have the first tenants in the apartment towers by May of this year."

"The high-rise complex going up across North Central Expressway from NorthPark Center shopping mall is one of the largest such developments in the country.

"And Mr. Ruble said the project wouldn't be happening the way it is without the adjoining rail station.

""It's already come up several times in discussions with tenants about how attractive it will be to access the project through DART," he said. "As Dallas becomes more urban and people move back into the city, more of them are willing to ride the transit.""

....

[my bolds]

Transit Oriented Development - Surrounding Cities - Fort Worth Forum

Show me where the UNT study disagrees with me.

And if they really cared about being near a DART station, they would have at least done a better connection with it.

[mm4]

Originally Posted by JKAddict

Show me where the UNT study disagrees with me.

The whole study that I linked to, top to bottom, disagrees with your assessment that TOD isn't responsive to DART rail stations. And specific to the Shops per se:

"Researchers evaluated developments located within 0.25 mile of a DART Rail station and found that the station area outperformed those in comparable control locations in each of five major property types. New developments built between 1993 and 2013 in close proximity to light rail totaled more than $1.5 billion in valuation, compared with roughly $600 million in control areas.

"Of those completed projects, more than $751 million are multifamily residential developments; office developments total $224 million. Retail developments are worth $393 million, with Mockingbird Station and The Shops at Park Lane the most notable examples. Industrial and single-family properties also were more plentiful near rail stations."

Originally Posted by JKAddict

And if they really cared about being near a DART station, they would have at least done a better connection with it.

The Shops are directly next door to a DART Station. Right across the street.

Do you want Habitrail tubes?

[JKAddict]

Originally Posted by mm4

The whole study that I linked to, top to bottom, disagrees with your assessment that TOD isn't responsive to DART rail stations. And specific to the Shops per se:

"Researchers evaluated developments located within 0.25 mile of a DART Rail station and found that the station area outperformed those in comparable control locations in each of five major property types. New developments built between 1993 and 2013 in close proximity to light rail totaled more than $1.5 billion in valuation, compared with roughly $600 million in control areas.

"Of those completed projects, more than $751 million are multifamily residential developments; office developments total $224 million. Retail developments are worth $393 million, with Mockingbird Station and The Shops at Park Lane the most notable examples. Industrial and single-family properties also were more plentiful near rail stations."




The Shops are directly next door to a DART Station. Right across the street.

Do you want Habitrail tubes?

I never said TOD wasn't responsive to DART stations. I started this thread to show that it wasn't. And, like I said before, the article only mentions that the shops are close to a rail station, which is exactly what I said before.

And yeah, directly next door, except for the suburban development between the two.

[mm4]

Originally Posted by JKAddict

I never said TOD wasn't responsive to DART stations. I started this thread to show that it wasn't. And, like I said before, the article only mentions that the shops are close to a rail station, which is exactly what I said before.

And yeah, directly next door, except for the suburban development between the two.

You mean the street between the two?

Oh, and BTW, The Shops has parking.

[JKAddict]

Originally Posted by mm4

You mean the street between the two?

Oh, and BTW, The Shops has parking.

No, I mean the suburban restaurant between the two.

I know, so? I've shopped there, and I've had friends who have worked there.

[mm4]

Originally Posted by JKAddict

No, I mean the suburban restaurant between the two.

I know, so? I've shopped there, and I've had friends who have worked there.

It appears to all of those reading this thread that you've painted yourself into a corner.