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Old 08-30-2013, 10:25 AM
 
743 posts, read 1,314,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80 View Post
We should be modeling our state schools off what the best ones (UVA, UNC, Michigan, Berkeley) do. I might be wrong, but I don't believe any of those do auto-admitting shenanigans, do they?!
I know UNC and Michigan are considered "easy" to get into by in-state residents. The in-state admissions rate at UNC is roughly 50%, out of state students are capped at 18% of the student body, which is why the school has such a low admission rate.

UVA has a formula that heavily weights geography. It's much harder for a kid from TJ in Fairfax to get into UVA than for a kid from the southwestern part of the state.

Berkeley is the only school that is appreciably harder to get into in-state than UT. At which point it's convenient to point out that it's a smaller undergraduate population (25k v 38k) in a more populous state.

What kind of hissy fit would you guys be having if kids form the Valley were given points and kids from 75225 were not? I personally, love the UT way of doing things. It's simple and easy to understand. You always know where you stand. It also ensured that I had a stellar fall back option
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:29 AM
 
743 posts, read 1,314,550 times
Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Affirmative action was a half-assed attempt to "level" the playing field, and I always felt it was too little too late...breadcrumbs thrown on the ground for the kids who managed to run the gauntlet of poverty and crappy inner-city schools and come out decent on the other side. It was insulting.

The top 10% rule is the same, just thinly disguised as something else. It's an embarrassment and to me all it does is highlight the utterly sorry state of public secondary education in this state.

YMMV.
What would be less insulting? You've clearly thought about this, so what's your preferred alternative?
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:32 AM
 
19,520 posts, read 17,762,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Speaking as a UT grad...I agree, but it's not "we". Put the blame where it belongs: The Lege. We have this asinine rule thanks to HB 588 which was a reaction to Hopwood v. Texas.
I said we because we voted those folks into office.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:40 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,111,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Considering Coming Back View Post
What would be less insulting? You've clearly thought about this, so what's your preferred alternative?
Well gee, if I knew exactly how to fix this problem I'd be running things, not pounding on databases all day.

Obviously we need to vastly improve secondary education in this state, starting with the worst-performing schools. These kids need to have the same opportunities to succeed as affluent, middle-class children...and they don't have that right now.

UT-Austin should not have auto-admits. It cheapens it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
I said we because we voted those folks into office.
Oooh, let's not open that Pandora's Box.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:41 AM
 
19,520 posts, read 17,762,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big G View Post
Playing devil's advocate:

The 10% rule is less about race, and more about $$$$, and about geographic distribution. The justification of the rule is that UT's student body should reflect the state as a whole.

If UT used nothing but grades and test scores, the kids would be largely middle-class and up, and largely from the Dallas, Houston, Austin, and SA suburban areas. There would be large chunks of the state that would not be served by UT. Specifically, the poor inner cities and the poor rural areas.

And that's why the Top 10% isn't going away. Those directly harmed by it (suburban kids) are concentrated in a handful of districts, while the direct benefit is spread thinly across a majority of districts. Now, UT itself also suffers harm from the rule. But, unfortunately, UT isn't ANYONE's constituent.
All that's well and good. But you'll notice that UT's national ranking, lame as those metrics are, has slipped significantly during the ear of the "10% rules". However, UT's competitive admittance programs are nearly all very highly ranked. That tells you straight up that the 10% rule is hurting the school and hurting badly.

Making the school worse in order to fulfill some notion of inclusiveness is a bad idea IMO.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:42 AM
 
743 posts, read 1,314,550 times
Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Well gee, if I knew exactly how to fix this problem I'd be running things, not pounding on databases all day.

Obviously we need to vastly improve secondary education in this state, starting with the worst-performing schools. These kids need to have the same opportunities to succeed as affluent, middle-class children...and they don't have that right now.

UT-Austin should not have auto-admits. It cheapens it.
So the status quo is "insulting", but you don't know what would be better? Got it. And people wonder why the status quo remains...
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:42 AM
 
19,520 posts, read 17,762,064 times
Reputation: 17046
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo81 View Post
I'd be fine with UT & A&M ending auto-admit, but it's hard to make the case for continuing to support them with the Permanent University Fund and other public funds if they become preserves for affluent students who went through the right school districts.
So dumb it down in other words?
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:43 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,111,483 times
Reputation: 28547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Considering Coming Back View Post
So the status quo is "insulting", but you don't know what would be better? Got it. And people wonder why the status quo remains...
I realize you consider yourself to be extremely clever; however, I think you need to work on your reading comprehension. That is assuming you read my response in the first place.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:46 AM
 
19,520 posts, read 17,762,064 times
Reputation: 17046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Considering Coming Back View Post
I know UNC and Michigan are considered "easy" to get into by in-state residents. The in-state admissions rate at UNC is roughly 50%, out of state students are capped at 18% of the student body, which is why the school has such a low admission rate.

UVA has a formula that heavily weights geography. It's much harder for a kid from TJ in Fairfax to get into UVA than for a kid from the southwestern part of the state.

Berkeley is the only school that is appreciably harder to get into in-state than UT. At which point it's convenient to point out that it's a smaller undergraduate population (25k v 38k) in a more populous state.

What kind of hissy fit would you guys be having if kids form the Valley were given points and kids from 75225 were not? I personally, love the UT way of doing things. It's simple and easy to understand. You always know where you stand. It also ensured that I had a stellar fall back option
That last part is just straight up wrong. There is more confusion and bad info about auto-admits at UT than I would have though possible until my son applied a few years ago. You just wouldn't believe how many kids and parents think an auto-admit means you get to pick your major without qualifying.


ETA - with respect the X% rule is simply another way of giving "kids form The Valley" and others who are less ready non-meritorious admissions advantages over others.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:50 AM
 
743 posts, read 1,314,550 times
Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
All that's well and good. But you'll notice that UT's national ranking, lame as those metrics are, has slipped significantly during the ear of the "10% rules". However, UT's competitive admittance programs are nearly all very highly ranked. That tells you straight up that the 10% rule is hurting the school and hurting badly.

Making the school worse in order to fulfill some notion of inclusiveness is a bad idea IMO.
Why do you just make stuff up? In 1998 (TTP law was passed in '97) UT was not in the top 50 of US News. In 2013 UT is 46th.

For the record Cal has climbed from 23rd to 21st; UNC fallen from 27th to 30th; Michigan down from 23rd (tied with Cal in '98) to 29th; UVA down from 21st to 24th.
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