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Chiming in, I live in Flower Mound, and it's pretty great. We looked around, but Flower Mound felt good to us. Nice people, nice neighborhoods, great schools. Lots of trees, parks, nice areas and activities for families. I suppose that most nice areas in D/FW have those things, but I cannot stand Southlake. It just feels so plastic and fake and like everyone there is mad that they couldn't afford Highland Park and is trying to buy enough stuff to make themselves feel rich.
I drive to Dallas almost every day, and 2499 is much better than it used to be to get in and out. From Flower Mound to 645/121 is very easy now, and from 635/121 to Flower Mound will be pretty easy once they open it up.
I think you'll like what you see in Colleyville, and your top price of $700k should get you 5 bedrooms and a bigger lot. The schools are great. Depending on where in Colleyville the home is located,it will be zoned to Grapevine HS or Colleyville Heritage HS. There is little rhyme or reason to this other than the boundary lines. The schools are located very close to each other in the same-Ish part of town. They are both great schools. I got caught up in the school thing as well when we were moving but as I meet families from both, I see they are both great schools. Do you need elementary? The only one to avoid is timberline (which your price effectively does for you). All middle schools are great. Both high schools are great. Let me know if you have specific questions and I am happy to help.
Found a couple of homes not terribly far from Dallas in colleyville. Thanks again for the suggestion! Hoping to visit Colleyville when we come out next in a few days, God willing.
For example, although the actual miles are less, you'll take longer to commute from Plano West looking into congested segment # 96 on Dallas Tollway between PGBT and 635.
Every person tolerance level on commute is different. Take it with a grain of salt. I used to think certain segments were bad unless you see this actual study and find there are worse segments folks are commuting and my segment is not even on this list. DFW traffic is better than New York or California though. Exception like accidents or construction are always there. One hour of commute each way is definitely high and you should avoid those areas, but unless you do the relative comparison, you might miss out on a house/area that was a better fit on your overall priorities.
Checked out that site. It was very interesting! I was a bit confused at first how to read and understand it but once I think I figured it out, it helped show the areas that get congested which is what Ive been wanting to know for AGES! Thanks again.
In addition to the blogspot link that's been given to you that summarizes lots of pertinent info, there is tons of data available through the Texas Education Agency website: https://rptsvr1.tea.texas.gov/perfre...apr/index.html
You can get reports by district or by campus, with lots of demographic data and achievement metrics, going all the way back to the early 90's IIRC.
New York - I lived out on Long Island for 6 months over 20 years ago, but had family that spent most of their life in Manhattan. The majority of my life has been spent in Chicago (I've also lived in Portland OR and Boston, so comparisons galore). Rush hour traffic is "bad" in DFW, certainly, but nothing like NYC or Chicago overall. Going into downtown Dallas is more like a traditional commute, but the Metroplex is a younger city built around car travel so it's the "multiple job enclaves connected by roadways" model rather than the "hub and spoke" model of older NE and upper MW cities built first around railroads.
In general, DFW is car-centric and very few areas are "walkable". You travel longer distances but in shorter times. Gas is cheaper but you drive more so it kinda winds up being a wash.
If you're looking for diversity (both ethnic and socioeconomic), Southlake is not your first choice - in fact, it's probably at the bottom of the list (and yes, this was one of the reasons why we preferred Colleyville). For you, Plano is probably your best choice there. It's become something of a joke that all incoming relos get Plano recommended to them, but there are reasons for that - it's a diverse suburb with excellent schools that is not THAT far out from Dallas (it's a ways, but not as far as Frisco or for pete's sake Prosper) and is also near a major job center at Legacy (where Route 121 and the Dallas North Tollway ["DNT"] come together). In our case we wanted to be close to DFW airport, but for you the commute to downtown Dallas is more of an issue.
Here are the numbers on Plano ISD. Page 16 lists ethnicity as well as percentage economically disadvantaged. FWIW, it's 38.8% White, 23.3% Hispanic, 22.2% Asian, and 11.7% African-American.
Contrasting that with Coppell, which is 40.6% White, 38.1% Asian, 13.2% Hispanic, and 4.4% African-American. My take on Coppell from reading this forum is that it has a large Indian population, and those number seem to corroborate that. So it's "diverse" in terms of "non-white", but not in the same way as Plano, which is more in line with NYC having many differing nationalities. https://rptsvr1.tea.texas.gov/cgi/sa...istrict=057922 As previously noted, Coppell is less socioeconomically diverse than Plano.
(Also in terms diversity, since we're talking New York City and because I grew up adjacent to Skokie, IL, I'll note that the Jewish population in DFW is quite small, but what little there is has a presence in Plano, as well as in Dallas proper in the Hillcrest area).
Depending on where you are in FloMo, the commute may be rough...but then, I could say the same about parts of Plano. We just didn't like the "feel" of Flower Mound, it felt too..."new". That's not quite right, and EVERYWHERE in the Metroplex is pretty new.
Colleyville (and Grapevine) have a lot to offer, as noted by me and 4 (and ask her about Colleyville if you haven't already; she's a treasure trove of info).
I'd strongly recommend coming down and spending some time driving around and checking out various areas. Numbers and objective data are good, but eventually it comes down to what you "feel" is right. All of the areas noted are excellent places to live and raise a family.
One last suggestion - check out Richardson, especially the areas in the Pearce high school feeder zone. Richardson is an "older" (by DFW standards) suburb that has ethnic diversity, more "local" restaurants (and a wide array of ethnic food for the Metroplex), and is a bit closer in nature to the suburbs around New York. It may not fit what you want (it's not as upscale overall, certainly), but other people on this forum live there and know it well and can give you suggestions. It's a LOT shorter commute to downtown than the other places mentioned.
Again, hope this helps and good luck to you.
Everything you've written has been very helpful - thank you.
So this response might get a little UNNECESSARILY personal - feel free to skip to the end lol bc I'm going to write as I think and it might be all over the place. In addition to learning about the neighborhoods, it seems I'm learning quite a lot about myself. I think I like ethnic diversity but not a wide range when it comes to socioeconomic diversity. So for example, I don't want to be the most "poor" in SL nor the most "rich" in say Richardson. But these towns are fairly big so it's hard to avoid a wide spectrum in terms of socioeconomic diversity. The difference, I'm seeing however, is that there are a lot more multimillion dollar homes in SL than in the other towns I'm looking at but I've also seen houses in the $500s in SL.
UNNECESSARILY PERSONAL:
I think I want something like I have now lol. I live in a suburb of NYC which has highly rated schools that are nationally ranked. My neighbors across the street are a Taiwanese and Lithuanian couple, next door a Jewish guy married to a 1/2 Phillipino and part Scottish woman, on the other side is an Irish couple, two houses down is an Italian family, across diagonally is an Indian couple, next to them is a part Black part Bangladeshi woman married to an African American whose son converted to Islam and married a Pakistani lol. It's an AMAZING neighborhood where everyone is hardworking, educated people. Needless to say, I'm not moving bc I don't like my neighbors or neighborhood. My specific development is also walking distance from a ton of restaurants, a Dunkin donuts, a pharmacy, a few banks, a yoga studio (owned by my Italian neighbor), a massage place, a salon, etc. it's just the best location for a suburb of NY. In school there are a ton of Indians. White families are actually a minority even though city-data says 74% white. It's considered an affluent town with median household income in 2013 was about $200k BUT ppl are NOT show offs AT ALL. Cars are normal (only a few Maseratis - NOT lol I was not impressed when you told me about seeing 3 a week it actually saddened me bc I don't want to be in a position where my kids growing up they think it's important to have such things. No offense to anyone who has one - I just don't care for them personally). In my town no one cares for designer. Even those in the million dollar homes. And I don't think designer is bad as long as it's not for showing off. If you like a nice car, go for it, I'm not judging at all, but if all you can do is talk about your car or designer bag then OMG I don't care. For me, I do like quality but I won't pay extra for a logo. Like the main reason I got my car was its safety ratings and its not a designer car. And I have designer bags but some you don't even know what the brand is unless you are *really* into the brand lol (but no I will not pay $1500 for a bag... That was my rent years ago!).
Gosh, I must sound so judgmental. I'm really not, I'm just being honest as to what I want to surround my kids with. I don't care what ppl do or what they wear or drive. More power to them to do what they want and if they want to spend money on things like that, then why not. As long as you're not hurting anyone, who cares. I'm just worried about my kids growing up in an environment where other kids get things handed to them and I'll be making them get jobs at the earliest allowable age legally to learn responsibility and so they don't feel a sense of entitlement. I've seen too many brats who have terrible financial skills and it has made me very disciplined with my kids.
I am mentioning all this to give an idea of my dilemma. First world problems, I know! It's just such a big change that I want to make the best educated decision possible. Based on all that I said, on paper SL is the place for me. Great schools, away from the city but close enough. Shopping nearby (depending where you live, I mentioned I wouldn't want to go west of White Chapel Rd). You get more land than in Coppell and its more highway accessible than FloMo. Then I talk to real people like you and others on this forum and I think on paper SL is great but in reality I'll feel I'm in a rat race and I HATE that!
NOT AS UNNECESSARILY PERSONAL IF YOU WANT RESUME READING:
One thing you said hit home... How I "feel" about a place. I've been out there 3 times and before I came out, I thought Richardson was going to be it. Close to Dallas, ethnic diversity, good schools. Done. Then I drove around and it just wasn't "me". So then I thought Plano for sure! But again, driving around I wasn't into it (but that was bc I focused on East Plano, I have to look into the west part of Plano some more). I went to FloMo which I liked bc ppl seemed nice but while I was out there back in September I hadn't seen anything that fit our needs/wants but now a few houses look promising. I didn't look at Colleyville bc the airport bifurcates the area and seems a chore to get around. But after some suggestions here I have put 2 houses on my list that are not too far from the highway. You know what area I really loved which is not on my list bc it is way too far from Dallas was McKinney. The area I looked at had good prices, good schools, and a real good mix of ethnic diversity. People were super nice (maybe everyone seems nice bc I'm from NY and we don't have a good reputation for being friendly lol).
I have not driven through Southlake or Colleyville so they could end up being like Richardson where I just am not "feeling" it. Or they might feel great. My next trip is coming up soon, God willing at which point I'm going to drive through FloMo again, west side of Plano, Colleyville, and I'll have a couple of meals in SL to get a feel of the area. Wish me luck please!
Chiming in, I live in Flower Mound, and it's pretty great. We looked around, but Flower Mound felt good to us. Nice people, nice neighborhoods, great schools. Lots of trees, parks, nice areas and activities for families. I suppose that most nice areas in D/FW have those things, but I cannot stand Southlake. It just feels so plastic and fake and like everyone there is mad that they couldn't afford Highland Park and is trying to buy enough stuff to make themselves feel rich.
I drive to Dallas almost every day, and 2499 is much better than it used to be to get in and out. From Flower Mound to 645/121 is very easy now, and from 635/121 to Flower Mound will be pretty easy once they open it up.
Happy to answer any questions you may have.
Oh man, that is exactly what I don't want - fake, plastic ppl!
What is worse is that if I do end up finding a house I like in SL, then what if ppl think I am also fake/plastic and that my kids grew up entitled?!
And make no mistake - I definitely can't afford the park cities and have no embarrassment admitting it lol. But SL for me is nothing like the park cities. I think the park cities are old money so even though I haven't met anyone from there, I imagine the ppl are comfortably confident and don't need to prove anything whereas as it seems SL may be new money with many over confident ppl who think they need to show they belong?
I like speculating, so I'll go with that analysis lol.
Chiming in, I live in Flower Mound, and it's pretty great. We looked around, but Flower Mound felt good to us. Nice people, nice neighborhoods, great schools. Lots of trees, parks, nice areas and activities for families. I suppose that most nice areas in D/FW have those things, but I cannot stand Southlake. It just feels so plastic and fake and like everyone there is mad that they couldn't afford Highland Park and is trying to buy enough stuff to make themselves feel rich.
I drive to Dallas almost every day, and 2499 is much better than it used to be to get in and out. From Flower Mound to 645/121 is very easy now, and from 635/121 to Flower Mound will be pretty easy once they open it up.
Happy to answer any questions you may have.
Leagle, I forgot to ask what's your commute time? And are you driving to and from Dallas during Rush hour?
Southlake is nothing like the Park Cities and I highly doubt most people who live there give it much thought. 1/2 of them are transplants and 1/2 of them are your typical upwardly mobile Texan family. Lots of nice people up there, and some jerks too. Pretty much like every other town/city you will ever live in.
Everything you've written has been very helpful - thank you.
So this response might get a little UNNECESSARILY personal - feel free to skip to the end lol bc I'm going to write as I think and it might be all over the place. In addition to learning about the neighborhoods, it seems I'm learning quite a lot about myself. I think I like ethnic diversity but not a wide range when it comes to socioeconomic diversity. So for example, I don't want to be the most "poor" in SL nor the most "rich" in say Richardson. But these towns are fairly big so it's hard to avoid a wide spectrum in terms of socioeconomic diversity. The difference, I'm seeing however, is that there are a lot more multimillion dollar homes in SL than in the other towns I'm looking at but I've also seen houses in the $500s in SL.
UNNECESSARILY PERSONAL:
I think I want something like I have now lol. I live in a suburb of NYC which has highly rated schools that are nationally ranked. My neighbors across the street are a Taiwanese and Lithuanian couple, next door a Jewish guy married to a 1/2 Phillipino and part Scottish woman, on the other side is an Irish couple, two houses down is an Italian family, across diagonally is an Indian couple, next to them is a part Black part Bangladeshi woman married to an African American whose son converted to Islam and married a Pakistani lol. It's an AMAZING neighborhood where everyone is hardworking, educated people. Needless to say, I'm not moving bc I don't like my neighbors or neighborhood. My specific development is also walking distance from a ton of restaurants, a Dunkin donuts, a pharmacy, a few banks, a yoga studio (owned by my Italian neighbor), a massage place, a salon, etc. it's just the best location for a suburb of NY. In school there are a ton of Indians. White families are actually a minority even though city-data says 74% white. It's considered an affluent town with median household income in 2013 was about $200k BUT ppl are NOT show offs AT ALL. Cars are normal (only a few Maseratis - NOT lol I was not impressed when you told me about seeing 3 a week it actually saddened me bc I don't want to be in a position where my kids growing up they think it's important to have such things. No offense to anyone who has one - I just don't care for them personally). In my town no one cares for designer. Even those in the million dollar homes. And I don't think designer is bad as long as it's not for showing off. If you like a nice car, go for it, I'm not judging at all, but if all you can do is talk about your car or designer bag then OMG I don't care. For me, I do like quality but I won't pay extra for a logo. Like the main reason I got my car was its safety ratings and its not a designer car. And I have designer bags but some you don't even know what the brand is unless you are *really* into the brand lol (but no I will not pay $1500 for a bag... That was my rent years ago!).
Gosh, I must sound so judgmental. I'm really not, I'm just being honest as to what I want to surround my kids with. I don't care what ppl do or what they wear or drive. More power to them to do what they want and if they want to spend money on things like that, then why not. As long as you're not hurting anyone, who cares. I'm just worried about my kids growing up in an environment where other kids get things handed to them and I'll be making them get jobs at the earliest allowable age legally to learn responsibility and so they don't feel a sense of entitlement. I've seen too many brats who have terrible financial skills and it has made me very disciplined with my kids.
I am mentioning all this to give an idea of my dilemma. First world problems, I know! It's just such a big change that I want to make the best educated decision possible. Based on all that I said, on paper SL is the place for me. Great schools, away from the city but close enough. Shopping nearby (depending where you live, I mentioned I wouldn't want to go west of White Chapel Rd). You get more land than in Coppell and its more highway accessible than FloMo. Then I talk to real people like you and others on this forum and I think on paper SL is great but in reality I'll feel I'm in a rat race and I HATE that!
NOT AS UNNECESSARILY PERSONAL IF YOU WANT RESUME READING:
One thing you said hit home... How I "feel" about a place. I've been out there 3 times and before I came out, I thought Richardson was going to be it. Close to Dallas, ethnic diversity, good schools. Done. Then I drove around and it just wasn't "me". So then I thought Plano for sure! But again, driving around I wasn't into it (but that was bc I focused on East Plano, I have to look into the west part of Plano some more). I went to FloMo which I liked bc ppl seemed nice but while I was out there back in September I hadn't seen anything that fit our needs/wants but now a few houses look promising. I didn't look at Colleyville bc the airport bifurcates the area and seems a chore to get around. But after some suggestions here I have put 2 houses on my list that are not too far from the highway. You know what area I really loved which is not on my list bc it is way too far from Dallas was McKinney. The area I looked at had good prices, good schools, and a real good mix of ethnic diversity. People were super nice (maybe everyone seems nice bc I'm from NY and we don't have a good reputation for being friendly lol).
I have not driven through Southlake or Colleyville so they could end up being like Richardson where I just am not "feeling" it. Or they might feel great. My next trip is coming up soon, God willing at which point I'm going to drive through FloMo again, west side of Plano, Colleyville, and I'll have a couple of meals in SL to get a feel of the area. Wish me luck please!
Thank you so very much again!!
BigMama
A) I totally get what you mean for your NY 'burb. I was in Elmont and it was similar. More middle-class but that mix of people. I think you'll be hard-pressed to find that in DFW but parts of Plano and Richardson might be kinda like that (but then you've already crossed off Richardson). DFW is different from NYC in lots of ways. I'll defer to others who've lived here longer and might know places that would fit.
B) Southlake - yeah, it can be like that. The Maserati thing isn't just a Southlake issue, however - it's a DFW-wide phenomenon. Look up "30K Millionaire" in threads here. Not that everyone in DFW is like that, but it seems like there's more of it here than many other cities. Very much "you-are-what-you-drive" mentality (not just cars but other "showy" materialistic things).
FWIW, our subdivision (with slightly "older" homes) feels less that way, probably because people who are all into "showy" often prefer brand new construction (again, many/most people in new homes likely want them for practical reasons, but there's a certain subgroup...).
As you might have guessed, we're more in line with your view and tend to hang with people who have similar outlooks (and yes, there are plenty of grounded, down-to-earth people in Southlake and elsewhere in DFW). I don't care what other people do with their lives...but there's a reason my profile says "Southlake - don't judge me", because saying you're from Southlake sometimes earns one That Look.
So, keep checking out areas. You're fortunate enough to have many options in the Metroplex at your price point.
I know very little about McKinney other than what I've read here, but there are regulars who live/have lived there and can give you lots of information. It's a nice 'burb that has existed as a separate town for a long time, so the city center IIRC has a bit of history.
Last - overall, I'm not a big fan of the Metroplex. My favorite part of the country is the Pacific Northwest, which should give you an idea why. That said, it's relatively inexpensive and has a lot of family-friendly areas, and the winters are much better than the Northeast. I assume you're moving for work reasons. Find the bits that work for you, enjoy the differences that are "better" for your life, and accept that there are items you'll be leaving behind (like, say, good bagels or being able to pick up a slice from any of a dozen local pizzerias). I'm sure you already know this.
Again, best of luck and I hope your move goes well and you find a great location that sings to you. Oh, and if you can, you might want to travel during much of July and August, that's when it gets REALLY HOT down here!
Our family of 5 moved to Southlake in 2012. Our goal was similar to yours - find an area that had good safe schools and a community feel. Also like you, we had heard about the stereotypes of Southlake which were a put off. But because of the schools and commute, we took the plunge and we could not be happier.
Since we have moved here, there has been a shift of sorts. The baby boomers whose kids are now in college are moving out and a wave of gen x families are moving in. I honestly do feel that the "vain" aspect is more of a boomer thing than our generation. In my street of 16 homes, 9 families of our age have moved in the past 10 years. This is slowly but surely changing the population and the feel. If you look up the stats, the median household income is about $170 k and the median home value is low $500k. That means that even though there are ridiculously rich people here, most of us are upper middle class. The fact is, over 50% of homes in southlake are in the $400-600 range. Also, almost 70% of adults have a college degree.
Also, you will find that there a lot of transplants here. If you go to Facebook and look up Southlake moms, you will see this to be the case.
Does southlake love it's football? Yes. But did you know that they have won state championships in swimming, cross country, etc? They also just broke the record for the number of students who enrolled in the debate club. The drama club is huge here also. Like I said, the population is changing and hence the culture is changing. Since my kids have been in school there have been 4 to 5 students who are minorities in each one of their classes out of 20 students. I definitely see that there is more balance than people think there is in southlake.
I am not a social butterfly who is eager to be a president of the pto, etc. I just want my kids to have a great quality education in a safe place and grow up with good people. And I feel that the goal is being met here.
Finally, I am not saying there aren't crazy people here. What I am saying is that I don't see any more crazies here than any other nice suburban area. I definitely feel like most people here are more like us than the Southlake stereotype.
Last - overall, I'm not a big fan of the Metroplex. My favorite part of the country is the Pacific Northwest, which should give you an idea why. That said, it's relatively inexpensive and has a lot of family-friendly areas, and the winters are much better than the Northeast. I assume you're moving for work reasons. Find the bits that work for you, enjoy the differences that are "better" for your life, and accept that there are items you'll be leaving behind (like, say, good bagels or being able to pick up a slice from any of a dozen local pizzerias). I'm sure you already know this.
Again, best of luck and I hope your move goes well and you find a great location that sings to you. Oh, and if you can, you might want to travel during much of July and August, that's when it gets REALLY HOT down here!
Good advice Synchronocity! You're right Ill be leaving some things behind. I just hope it's not the more important things in life (although I love carbs do leaving bagels is a big deal lol). I look forward to finding amazing new neighbors similar to the ones I currently have. Perhaps old people like you 😊
This last post by you and the one by Jayerdu makes me feel better again about SL. I still want to check out Colleyville though. As well as west side of Plano.
Thanks a million for all your help and time. And to everyone. All these posts have been incredibly helpful.
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