HUD Says City of Dallas Engaged in Housing Discrimination (Austin: 2013, cheap apartment)

[bencronin04]

I hope it is changing as well JTC. We only had a handful of minorities in my graduating class of 454 students.

[HockDad]

Originally Posted by JTC Mom

A local developer in the city from which we moved to Dallas has done some amazing things with workforce housing - though overall they also have a huge problem with affordability. There they built hundreds of townhomes - some market rate, some designated for people below median income. The quality is high and the location fantastic. The market rate townhomes sold at 700k-1.4million with no difficulty at all, and resale has been easy/good...at least for all but the most expensive. The designated units have a wait list. It can be done right!

QUOTE=HockDad;32464451]Unless something has changed in the last 4 years, there are very few black families in the park cities. I seem to recall an article (2003) in the Park Cities People titled "look who moved in the neighborhood" discussing a black person (Watson) moving to Highland Park. Their family was the first.

Of course, my personal test is going to Mustang Donuts and looking at the all of the sports teams and clubs on the wall. It is a little too white for my taste, but hey, the orchestra has numerous Asian families...

Please don't take this post as saying that the park cities is racist. If I was a rich black man I would not move my family there. I would just stick with the privates or plano. I would not want my kids to stick out that much at school.

I can't argue with the lack of diversity in the HPHS sports team pics but you might be surprised at the relatively greater diversity at the elementary school level (we were - pleasantly!). I'm not saying its "diverse" in comparison to other schools, just that my kids classes are all more diverse than those posters. I hope it's a new trend.[/quote]

Any black kids in your kids elementary classes?

[MStreetClassics]

If a city doesn't receive federal HUD funds, then they're really not under their jurisdiction. They can cause an uproar all they want, but they know that any moves to require Section 8 housing in an area that hasn't received federal HUD money would be frivolous. I would be surprised if cities like HP/UP, Plano, or Southlake receive these funds, but I don't know for sure. HUD definitely makes it hard to say no, because they love to extend their outreach.

[JTC Mom]

Originally Posted by HockDad

I can't argue with the lack of diversity in the HPHS sports team pics but you might be surprised at the relatively greater diversity at the elementary school level (we were - pleasantly!). I'm not saying its "diverse" in comparison to other schools, just that my kids classes are all more diverse than those posters. I hope it's a new trend.

Any black kids in your kids elementary classes?[/quote]

Yes. We've been in a total of 3 HP elementary classes in the year we have been here - so a total of 67 students (class sizes 24,23,20). Approximately 10-15 total appear as though they may be of a different race or ethnicity, including 2 black/AA and the rest Asian, Indian, or Hispanic. HP surely has a way to go in improving its diversity. However, my bigger concern moving here had/has more to do with the lack of economic diversity. Obviously that did not stop us from choosing to live here, but it is a concern.

To get back on topic of the post, we have lived in high income areas before that do a better job with providing affordable housing for city workers, fire, police, teachers, etc. I don't know much about the HUD issue that is the topic of this post, but would love to see Dallas and surrounding towns do a better job on this. I love the small town feel of HP and think it would be even better if our public servants and others who serve the community could also live in the community they serve.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by JTC Mom

To get back on topic of the post, we have lived in high income areas before that do a better job with providing affordable housing for city workers, fire, police, teachers, etc. I don't know much about the HUD issue that is the topic of this post, but would love to see Dallas and surrounding towns do a better job on this. I love the small town feel of HP and think it would be even better if our public servants and others who serve the community could also live in the community they serve.

The issue with the Park Cities is that it is fully built out. My understanding of affordable housing laws is that new Multi-family developments (rentals) MUST have a certain % of units set aside for lower income tenants. The existing Multi-family housing is excluded from whatever law went into effect in the 1990's regarding portioning out lower income units.

However, there isnt any multi-family housing being built in the Park Cities and hasn't been for years. As more and more families want to move into the district, there has been a 20+ year old trend to convert Multi-family housing into single family housing.

Look no further than the 4500 block of Normandy to see an entire block of lower rent ($750-1500/mo) older apartments torn down and rebuilt as a development of 16-20ish $900k+ single family, zero-lot line houses. As a landlord, why keep taking in approx $400k / year in rent on that block + paying whatever the taxes were ($100k?) + upkeep & repairs when you can cash in and sell the whole block for $6-8M?? Then the developer needs to maximize his profit and two years later there are $20M worth of homes where 30 old affordable apartments once were. This same scenario has happened all over the Park Cities- by SMU, the high school, and the middle school- and not once had a new rental complex been built where old rental property once existed.

I believe most towns that developed largely after the 1990's like Southlake and Prosper have intentionally excluded apartment rental complexes from their city planning as to avoid having a portion of the units allocated to HUD. Whether this is moral or not is one discussion. However, if these cities don't taken Federal decelopment money, I don't think HUD can really argue with their city planning structure.

All the new HUD philosophy of spreading out HUD housing (vs building centralized projects) has done is spread the crime around. The areas of Far North Dallas with newer section 8 housing have gone way downhill since those units opened up.

I'd rather see protected middle class housing like the Mitchell-Lama policies in NYC where families between $40-90k-ish (it would obviously be a lower threshold give. Dallas' COL vs NYC) can qualify to pay less than market rate in nicer areas. That way, it's truly the middle class like teachers, firefighters, general office workers, etc who benefit vs the average Section 8 tenants.

[JTC Mom]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

The issue with the Park Cities is that it is fully built out. My understanding of affordable housing laws is that new Multi-family developments (rentals) MUST have a certain % of units set aside for lower income tenants. The existing Multi-family housing is excluded from whatever law went into effect in the 1990's regarding portioning out lower income units.

However, there isnt any multi-family housing being built in the Park Cities and hasn't been for years. As more and more families want to move into the district, there has been a 20+ year old trend to convert Multi-family housing into single family housing.

Look no further than the 4500 block of Normandy to see an entire block of lower rent ($750-1500/mo) older apartments torn down and rebuilt as a development of 16-20ish $900k+ single family, zero-lot line houses. As a landlord, why keep taking in approx $400k / year in rent on that block + paying whatever the taxes were ($100k?) + upkeep & repairs when you can cash in and sell the whole block for $6-8M?? Then the developer needs to maximize his profit and two years later there are $20M worth of homes where 30 old affordable apartments once were. This same scenario has happened all over the Park Cities- by SMU, the high school, and the middle school- and not once had a new rental complex been built where old rental property once existed.

I don't know the legal requirements and of course the economics of what you describe is not difficult to understand. To be clear, the area I was describing is more built out and densely populated than the park cities. Developers there seek variances to build even greater density, and I assume (but not sure) that it is in the process of seeking those variances that the city is able to get developer commitments to workforce housing. Park Cities could do more to support housing for public servants/community workers if they chose to, and so can other communities. I'm not trying to stand on a soap box...just commenting on the article. Not all income-designated housing is bad and I think it would be great if high income areas did more to help ensure that teachers, police, etc. had affordable housing options to live in the communities they serve.

[Considering Coming Back]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

My understanding of affordable housing laws is that new Multi-family developments (rentals) MUST have a certain % of units set aside for lower income tenants. The existing Multi-family housing is excluded from whatever law went into effect in the 1990's regarding portioning out lower income units.

Unless University Park or Highland Park has a law requiring set-asides, this would not be the case. State and Federal law only require set-asides for publicly-financed projects. There is some land in HPISD that is both multifamily and in the city of Dallas, in theory affordable housing could be built there. To do that though the city of Dallas would have to either buy the land from the current owners or agree to a zoning variance (like increased density in exchange for low-income units). Both situations would face well financed protests.

Originally Posted by MStreetClassics

I would be surprised if cities like HP/UP, Plano, or Southlake receive these funds, but I don't know for sure.

Plano does: Plano, TX - Official Website - Housing & Urban Development (HUD) Grants

[brandonsimmons]

if HUD or section 8 is anywhere around me then im getting out. home values plummet

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by brandonsimmons

if HUD or section 8 is anywhere around me then im getting out. home values plummet

If you're in Dallas, they're already "anywhere around you", depending on your definition of the term.

[MStreetClassics]

Originally Posted by Considering Coming Back

Plano does: Plano, TX - Official Website - Housing & Urban Development (HUD) Grants

On second thought, not surprising at all. Probably on the ghetto, run-down east side that is always bringing the prestigious West Side down