HELP! Moving to Downtown Dallas w/kids (Lakewood, Park Cities, ???) (San Antonio: 2014, middle school)

[Lakewooder]

Originally Posted by HockDad

WW- 66% graduation rate is lacking. Moreover, don't tell me that you are only comparing white kids unless the kids are going to only interact with white kids. The basic argument that I hear from WW supporters is the "school within a school" is really great and has great kids and all of the other kids (non-white) must be the problem. I picture a football field surrounded by a track. The bad kids are on the track and the good kids are on the field. The bad kids will naturally try to pluck the good kids from the field and make them bad kids. Might not be a perfect analogy, but it somewhat fits.

That data is from 2010 or 2011 I believe. Yes, we do have a dropout problem. Any school with high numbers of first-generation immigrants from Mexico et al, has a similar problem. That's well-documented, and you must be aware of this. Many programs have been implemented over many years to try to staunch if not reverse this flow.


Your analogy in my experience, is backward. The so-called "good kids" (and their families/community) try to pluck the so-called "bad kids" from the football field and try to get them running on the track.

In some cases it works, and when it does there is nothing more rewarding.

[bencronin04]

I'm also sorry, but that DMN piece has lost all credit worthiness if it says that WW Exceeds Expectations and Plano W just Meets Expectations. LOL. What expectations?

[Considering Coming Back]

ben, that data is from the lowest year of white enrollment at Woodrow- before the IB program was implemented. Since then white enrollment has more than doubled. Next year's class, the class of 2015, is the first class you will see the trends. But that data won't show up in the TEA charts until 2017.

As for the school within a school...what can I say? It works for those who want to put in the effort. Woodrow has very unequal families in its feeder pattern. Probably the most unequal in the region (maybe TJ? But no one on Strait Ln is going to TJ). The kids who live in the $1M houses in Lakwood go to Brown and Vandy and UT, the kids on East Side Ave or in apartments on Columbia don't. BUT, those kids are exposed to rigorous courses, high expectations, and the opportunity to shine. They wouldn't have that at North Dallas or Madison.

I had a couple of kids in my BA classes a decade ago that challenged themselves and did well in AP math classes despite being ESL. They didn't go to top schools, but they did get big scholarships to places like UTD. Where they essential jumped two rungs on the ladder of generations success. If you don't have middle class buy-in then those kids won't have those opportunities.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

TC you yourself have used that argument with the scores of white kids, specifically about Woodrow. I could look it up, but you know you did. You have also used the-school-within-a-school situations in a positive light.

If you think that the white parents don't give a flip about the "brown & poor kids in the community" you demonstrate a basic lack of familiarity with our school over the last 40 years.

That is true and I'll own that. What I didn't realize at that point in time was just how bad the non-white scores were. And they haven't improved at all over the past several years as WW's neighborhood accolades continue to build.

I firmly changed my mind on this topic now that I have had time to examine it over more time.

[HockDad]

Originally Posted by Lakewooder

That data is from 2010 or 2011 I believe. Yes, we do have a dropout problem. Any school with high numbers of first-generation immigrants from Mexico et al, has a similar problem. That's well-documented, and you must be aware of this. Many programs have been implemented over many years to try to staunch if not reverse this flow.


Your analogy in my experience, is backward. The so-called "good kids" (and their families/community) try to pluck the so-called "bad kids" from the football field and try to get them running on the track.

In some cases it works, and when it does there is nothing more rewarding.

Lets be honest, there is likely plenty of plucking going both ways.

[bencronin04]

Originally Posted by Considering Coming Back

ben, that data is from the lowest year of white enrollment at Woodrow- before the IB program was implemented. Since then white enrollment has more than doubled. Next year's class, the class of 2015, is the first class you will see the trends. But that data won't show up in the TEA charts until 2017.

That's fair and I really am interested in seeing the results. Now just playing both side, TC or HockDad could you give a reason why we have seen home prices in the Lakewood area skyrocket in the last few years if not for a bettering school district? I'm honestly curious as my first thought would be to think improving schools.

[Considering Coming Back]

Originally Posted by HockDad

Lets be honest, there is likely plenty of plucking going both ways.

Do you really think that the kids of professionals who live in Lakewood, The M Streets, or Munger Place are succumbing to barrio problems on East Side?

You don't hear of any horror stories. I'm sure the DMN would let us all know if a Madison or Triston living on a big name street was arrested/assaulted/dead in Owenwood.

It does't happen and you're foolish to think it does.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by bencronin04

That's fair and I really am interested in seeing the results. Now just playing both side, TC or HockDad could you give a reason why we have seen home prices in the Lakewood area skyrocket in the last few years if not for a bettering school district? I'm honestly curious as my first thought would be to think improving schools.

The elementary school IS good - though my friend who tutors kids at both HP and Lakewood elementary schools says the HP kids still run circles around the Lakewood kids, fwiw.

I think the driving factors of home prices in Lakewood can be attributed to several reasons, listed in no particular order:
1) relative affordability compared to HPISD or Preston Hollow + private schools
2) great location in proximity to downtown
3) Lakewood Elementary School

I know lots of people moving there for the elementary school. I don't know anyone moving there for Long or Woodrow and in fact know a few families who have bought much smaller houses in the Park Cities once their kids hit late elementary school in Lakewood. I have about a half-dozen friends from HP who all plan to give Lakewood Elem a shot (or are already doing so), but plan to go private or to HP when their kids are middle-school aged.

If Long and Woodrow ever become academic powerhouses, values would skyrocket to close to HPISD levels overnight (probably still less because of being in DISD and City of Dallas services). That would be a GREAT thing for the city of Dallas to have two legitimate public neighborhood high schools within the 635 loop (HP and Woodrow) and would likely greatly reduce the overcrowding situation on HPISD's campuses.

[Victoire2002]

I have 3 children at Lakewood Elementary. I think the education is fairly good, but have no anecdotal or hard evidence that the kids are faring better or worse than HP kids. Lakewood has traditionally not had the social pressures associated with HP/UP, which probably accounts for something developmentally. As for Long, I know the parents are trying to change the school. It draws from a larger demographic/socioeconomic area, so it's harder to influence change at the school. To boot, JL Long administrators refuse to have parental involvement the way Lakewood Elementary did. If JL Long would change it's stance and allow Lakewood parents to helicopter into the school, I can almost guarantee the environment would change dramatically.

Agree with posters above that middle school are the worst years in many ways, and having pre-gang activity and attitude is not really optimal for learning. I suppose if you are tracked into an IB program, one would probably have a bit more success.

Time will tell on WW and JL Long. I think WW stands a great chance at becoming a world class public HS.

Oh, and I can attest to the fact that Lakewood is becoming "HP Light"..... one look around at the Jimmy Choos and the mothers' fashion, the Range Rovers, etc. lets you know that "hippie" Lakewood has become "gentrified?" "snobbish"...... but that depends on how you define things. ;-). We look more and more like HP every day.

[mdmat]

Originally Posted by Victoire2002

I have 3 children at Lakewood Elementary. I think the education is fairly good, but have no anecdotal or hard evidence that the kids are faring better or worse than HP kids. Lakewood has traditionally not had the social pressures associated with HP/UP, which probably accounts for something developmentally. As for Long, I know the parents are trying to change the school. It draws from a larger demographic/socioeconomic area, so it's harder to influence change at the school. To boot, JL Long administrators refuse to have parental involvement the way Lakewood Elementary did. If JL Long would change it's stance and allow Lakewood parents to helicopter into the school, I can almost guarantee the environment would change dramatically.

Agree with posters above that middle school are the worst years in many ways, and having pre-gang activity and attitude is not really optimal for learning. I suppose if you are tracked into an IB program, one would probably have a bit more success.

Time will tell on WW and JL Long. I think WW stands a great chance at becoming a world class public HS.

Oh, and I can attest to the fact that Lakewood is becoming "HP Light"..... one look around at the Jimmy Choos and the mothers' fashion, the Range Rovers, etc. lets you know that "hippie" Lakewood has become "gentrified?" "snobbish"...... but that depends on how you define things. ;-). We look more and more like HP every day.

Long has changed dramatically in the last 4 years since Danielle Petters has been the principal. I say that as a parent who sent my Lakewood-graduate to a private school for 6th grade before returning to Long--by request to be with friends--for 7, 8th. I now have a 7th grader there and am very pleased with the classroom and campus environment.

Actually, there is a significant parent presence on campus at Long which I am a part of as much as I am at Lakewood. Many of the same PTA programs offered at Lakewood have carried over/implemented as students have graduated and moved up to middle school. There are strong parent booster clubs for extracurricular activities, as well. The difference, however, is the difference between an elementary school and a middle school. The "helicopter" parent is discouraged b/c the students are old enough to not need or WANT their parents lurking around the campus day in and day out. Students are expected to take responsibility for their school work and their actions.

In our 4 years there we've not experienced any "pre-gang" activity nor have my close friends. I can add with certainty that IB is not the end-all answer to success at WW or keeping a student in the "non-gang population"(?). Most of the college-bound students there aren't in IB and still are accepted to colleges around the nation. My WW student has said she couldn't tell me who at school is in a gang or not--her words "I don't think we have any." Yes, that may be naive' but I think it speaks volumes about the environment of the campus.

Bottom line is Long and WW compare above average in the TEA and NCLB rankings and are the top-performing, comprehensive middle and HS in DISD based on those performance standards.

P.S. As someone who has had a student at Lakewood for 10+ years I would agree that the parent population has definitely changed!