I-345 tearout has got to be dead for now. (Houston: 2014, live)

[EDS_]

Complete statement from Mayor Rawlings on tearing down I-345 | Dallas Morning News


All you need to know is a full tear-out plus completing the numerous sub-projects needed to fix all the damage would be around $1.9 billion according to TXDOT, not ~$90 million like Patrick Kennedy threw out there.

Game over at least for now.

[Rob.]

Combine that with a 10-year traffic study by TXDOT... no way it will happen.

[TheOverdog]

$2 billion to remove a 2 mile stretch vs $3.5 billion for 10 miles of a complete rebuild of 635. Do they really expect anyone except idiots to believe that $2b number?

[BobCasaubon]

Rodger Jones writes:

"NB drivers on I-35 heading to U.S. 75 now have two options: Stemmons to Woodall to 75, or I-30 to I-345 to 75. I can’t see all of that being funneled into Stemmons with anything less than a disastrous result."

Is Jones kidding us? There are routes OTHER than freeways on which it is possible to drive an automobile. They are called "Streets." If you want to drive across San Francisco or Manhattan, you must use these things called "Streets." Not coincidentally, SF and NY are full of vibrant lively districts that have NOT been torn down to serve the almighty auto. Walk down Houston street in NY and then try to argue that NY as a whole would be better off if commuters from Brooklyn to New Jersey were able to make that drive on a Lower Manhattan Expressway without having to undergo the excruciatingly inhumane experience of exiting the freeway and driving on a "street."

Lower Manhattan Expressway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The idea is that without 345, drivers would use these things called "streets" leading to increased economic activity and value on those "streets."

Jones's complete silence regarding the preceding argument indicates the fundamental blind spot that the car-dependent have on this issue. Drive across Dallas WITHOUT a freeway? What is this, Somalia?

[Adamson865]

Originally Posted by BobCasaubon

Rodger Jones writes:

"NB drivers on I-35 heading to U.S. 75 now have two options: Stemmons to Woodall to 75, or I-30 to I-345 to 75. I can’t see all of that being funneled into Stemmons with anything less than a disastrous result."

Is Jones kidding us? There are routes OTHER than freeways on which it is possible to drive an automobile. They are called "Streets." If you want to drive across San Francisco or Manhattan, you must use these things called "Streets." Not coincidentally, SF and NY are full of vibrant lively districts that have NOT been torn down to serve the almighty auto. Walk down Houston street in NY and then try to argue that NY as a whole would be better off if commuters from Brooklyn to New Jersey were able to make that drive on a Lower Manhattan Expressway without having to undergo the excruciatingly inhumane experience of exiting the freeway and driving on a "street."

Lower Manhattan Expressway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The idea is that without 345, drivers would use these things called "streets" leading to increased economic activity and value on those "streets."

Jones's complete silence regarding the preceding argument indicates the fundamental blind spot that the car-dependent have on this issue. Drive across Dallas WITHOUT a freeway? What is this, Somalia?

Fine - YOU drive across Dallas without a freeway and let us know how many days it takes you. The rest of us have places to go and things to do.

[RonnieinDallas]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

$2 billion to remove a 2 mile stretch vs $3.5 billion for 10 miles of a complete rebuild of 635. Do they really expect anyone except idiots to believe that $2b number?

^
this

All lies by TxDOT, and totally predictable behavior from a government bureaucracy. On February 1, 2014 they claimed a complete tear down AND tunneling it would cost $1 billion:

Assistant city manager Jill Jordan says TxDOT told the city it will cost $100 million to rehab the bridge, as opposed to the $1 billion it says it would cost to take it down and replace it with, say, a tunnel or some other car-moving option

TxDOT tells Dallas it will repair and not remove the highway separating Deep Ellum and downtown | Dallas Morning News

Now $2billion just to tear down a 1.4 mile dilapidated highway?! :

TxDOT estimating a cost of approximately $1.9 billion to fund demolition and associated street and bridge improvements. And it’s a time-consuming process as well. Similar projects have taken up to 10 years to complete

http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallas...wn-i-345.html/

This happens in every city it's been proposed. Each time that state's DOT goes on a full fledged smear campaign predicting dire consequences if the highway is removed, but it NEVER happens. This isn't an exotic idea, it's odd that TxDOT and Mayor Rawlings failed to examine the numerous cities where similar highways have been removed. Maybe they think Dallas is a magical place where what's been repeatedly proven to work elsewhere would instead fail miserably.

[rantanamo]

I can't believe the amount BS people are falling for with this. Anyone that drives that stretch knows the AADT numbers are BS and this cost estimate is BS. So it would cost more to tear this out and rebuild maybe a mile of cross streets underneath than it would to completely rebuild this thing(meaning tear down, rebuild, rebuild cross streets?

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

$2 billion to remove a 2 mile stretch vs $3.5 billion for 10 miles of a complete rebuild of 635. Do they really expect anyone except idiots to believe that $2b number?

Yea whatever. Prove they are lying and become a millionaire whistleblower or if not stifle it.

The 635 rebuild is 11/12 miles from downtown. I-345 is downtown.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by BobCasaubon

Rodger Jones writes:

"NB drivers on I-35 heading to U.S. 75 now have two options: Stemmons to Woodall to 75, or I-30 to I-345 to 75. I can’t see all of that being funneled into Stemmons with anything less than a disastrous result."

Is Jones kidding us? There are routes OTHER than freeways on which it is possible to drive an automobile. They are called "Streets." If you want to drive across San Francisco or Manhattan, you must use these things called "Streets." Not coincidentally, SF and NY are full of vibrant lively districts that have NOT been torn down to serve the almighty auto. Walk down Houston street in NY and then try to argue that NY as a whole would be better off if commuters from Brooklyn to New Jersey were able to make that drive on a Lower Manhattan Expressway without having to undergo the excruciatingly inhumane experience of exiting the freeway and driving on a "street."

Lower Manhattan Expressway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The idea is that without 345, drivers would use these things called "streets" leading to increased economic activity and value on those "streets."

Jones's complete silence regarding the preceding argument indicates the fundamental blind spot that the car-dependent have on this issue. Drive across Dallas WITHOUT a freeway? What is this, Somalia?

With all due respect. Hammering Jones over that is STUPID. Just because an option is possible does not mean that option is reasonable. I could drive to Holy Grail Pub in Plano from Dallas by way of Oklahoma City but you know that would be silly.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by rantanamo

I can't believe the amount BS people are falling for with this. Anyone that drives that stretch knows the AADT numbers are BS and this cost estimate is BS. So it would cost more to tear this out and rebuild maybe a mile of cross streets underneath than it would to completely rebuild this thing(meaning tear down, rebuild, rebuild cross streets?

That's a false dilemma. The existing road needs to be rehabbed not torn out and re-built.

And the onus is on Kennedy and you guys come up with numbers backed up by a reasonable source or let it go.