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Old 06-12-2014, 06:27 PM
 
9,270 posts, read 9,916,504 times
Reputation: 8039

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Ronnie for the love of Pete. Did you really just say/imply surface streets are faster than 345? Come on that's just insane.
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:48 PM
 
4,185 posts, read 4,352,927 times
Reputation: 4765
Quote:
Read between the lines, folks.
Read between what lines? Developers are going to build up Prosper, Plano, Richardson, Irving, and Frisco, or they are going to build up downtown space vacated by a freeway. The choice for Dallas residents is up to them. Developers obviously don't really care. There is no conspiracy.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:48 AM
 
250 posts, read 280,355 times
Reputation: 364

Seriously!? Its insulting the amount of propaganda that is being tossed around on this issue. "There reason cars are there is because the highway is there" It sounds like a North Korean propaganda machine that is being repeated over and over by drones. Any 5 year old can tell you that the reason why surface streets are fast now is because probably 90% of the cars are going through 345. And whats going to happen to the surface street route when that 200000 extra cars are going through there.

I get it you guys want to develop downtown, that is all fine and dandy but just don't insult us with this propaganda. The Big Dig (aka the most expensive highway project) in Boston worked because they didn't exactly tore down the highway. They moved the highway underground but that is not after years and years of delay plus 2.8 billion dollars spent.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:14 AM
 
4,185 posts, read 4,352,927 times
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Quote:
Any 5 year old can tell you that the reason why surface streets are fast now is because probably 90% of the cars are going through 345.
You have 2 sets of streets that both go to the same place and one set is empty and the other set you are about to spend $100m to fix. In any other government situation, having two sets of the same thing that each require mass amounts of maintenance expenses would be stupid, but here fixing that is 'propoganda'.

You all don't even know what you are mad about.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Irving, TX
674 posts, read 655,975 times
Reputation: 1095
They should do it. It would do a lot to provide some chance for Dallas to become a much better city.

If they don't do it, that's fine. I live in Irving, and we can use the development money.
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:29 PM
 
1,212 posts, read 1,927,058 times
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I think it is sounds great, but I am not sure how it works. We are adding 150k people a year to the metroplex. No idea, but I would think 30-40k cars a year is a very conservative estimate. Over ten years, which I think it would take this long to construct, we would add at least 300-400k cars. That is a huge increase.

Now if they told me that they are spending big bucks at the same time to greatly expand the light rail I would be completely on board.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Garland
324 posts, read 400,484 times
Reputation: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by aznkobee View Post
Seriously!? Its insulting the amount of propaganda that is being tossed around on this issue. "There reason cars are there is because the highway is there" It sounds like a North Korean propaganda machine that is being repeated over and over by drones. Any 5 year old can tell you that the reason why surface streets are fast now is because probably 90% of the cars are going through 345. And whats going to happen to the surface street route when that 200000 extra cars are going through there.

I get it you guys want to develop downtown, that is all fine and dandy but just don't insult us with this propaganda. The Big Dig (aka the most expensive highway project) in Boston worked because they didn't exactly tore down the highway. They moved the highway underground but that is not after years and years of delay plus 2.8 billion dollars spent.
Not North Korea, but here's South Korea. Here's what happened when they demolished a highway through the center of Seoul, South Korea, seventh largest city in the world.

Heart and soul of the city | Environment | The Guardian
Seoul tears down an urban highway and the city can breathe again | Grist

More
Are freeways doomed? - Salon.com

Equating a connector in Dallas with a mega-project in Boston that rerouted the Central Artery (Interstate 93)—the chief highway through the heart of the city—to a 3.5-mile tunnel is ludicrous.

Even a comparison of the rebuilding the Dallas Mixmaster--an $800M project--to the Big Dig would be a non-starter, since the Boston project cost over 3X as much. Probably a lot more than 3X, factoring in inflation.
Work begins on massive Horseshoe project to rebuild downtown Dallas freeways | Dallas Morning News

Last edited by casimpso; 06-13-2014 at 02:16 PM..
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Old 06-14-2014, 04:12 PM
 
Location: The Mid-Cities
1,083 posts, read 1,499,841 times
Reputation: 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by aznkobee View Post
seriously!? Its insulting the amount of propaganda that is being tossed around on this issue. "there reason cars are there is because the highway is there" it sounds like a north korean propaganda machine that is being repeated over and over by drones. Any 5 year old can tell you that the reason why surface streets are fast now is because probably 90% of the cars are going through 345. And whats going to happen to the surface street route when that 200000 extra cars are going through there.

I get it you guys want to develop downtown, that is all fine and dandy but just don't insult us with this propaganda. the big dig (aka the most expensive highway project) in boston worked because they didn't exactly tore down the highway. They moved the highway underground but that is not after years and years of delay plus 2.8 billion dollars spent.
This is what I would favor. It just sounds much more reasonable that taking out a whole section of freeway. We should cap it like what we did with Klyde Warren Park but on a much bigger scale. Deep Ellum, Baylor area, downtown, park lovers, people currently using that freeway to get to work, the probable reuslt of I-35 getting heavily congested due to rerouting...everybody wins.

Real Estate investors will not gain much land but boy will the land currently neighboring the freeway as well as surrounding neighborhoods become more lively and increase in value.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:26 AM
 
Location: GlenView
56 posts, read 107,050 times
Reputation: 57
Default Keeping I345 will cost MORE to keep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Who is going to pay for this and how much will it cost? TX DOT isn't going to pay.
It will actually cost more to keep and maintain it over the years.

I think I recall them saying that to patch it up, etc... will be over 100 million dollars.

And I think that's just for this 1 time. It will need it again and again in the near future.
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Tysons Corner, VA by way of TEXAS
725 posts, read 1,063,871 times
Reputation: 872
It's an interesting proposal to be sure. I don't think overall it's a great idea just due to the fact 200,000 cars will not "disappear". Expect I-35, I-30, and Woodall Rodgers traffic to get worse very quickly.

With that said, a well-designed, wide surface street with good synchronization can help but not completely alleviate this issue.

Ideally I think 345 should be be buried and built over as the Woodall Rodgers was.

I think they should do the same thing with I-10 north of downtown Houston bury it and allow the Buffalo Bayou area to flourish.

Too bad both projects will likely never happen given the expense involved.
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